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[Yolan]

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Sorry if this has come up recently, I did a search and only saw

http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=6028.0

in which the OP suggested dorfs keep journals.

OK, well, one of my favorite elements of dungeon keeper was the libraries. For those of you who have never played the game, you could designate rooms as libraries, assign warlocks to them, and watch them research all kinds of goodies.

In the case of DF, I would love it if we could make libraries in our fortresses. In fact, I think every fortress would have to have at least a basic library to function beyond a few years in a friendly climate. I'm not suggesting a room which functions as a 'tech research' per se, but rather a repository for knowledge.

Lets consider world gen. Currently we have races, civilisations, mega-beasts, heroes, artifacts, all dynamically interacting over a massive span of time. I would like to see Toady add a new, special kind of unique artifact object into world gen = tomes.

Imagine that a tome is like a blue-print. A lot of basic knowledge any dwarf worth his salt would simply know, even if they are not so skilled in the actual technique. Take barrel making, for example. This could be counted as 'common knowledge'. However, what if certain types of construction that are suitably complex/cool required access to a tome. You set a nice fancy trap to be built, or a high quality bridge, and your architect runs off to the library to consult the relevant book?

During world-gen, dorf civs could create these tome objects, which could spawn into copies as they circulate amongst the different fortresses in the world. When you start your fortress you could have a few books with you, but as you develop you would want to start trading for them.

This whole thing could open up new occupations (scribe, librarian, etc.), new material chains (parchment, ink, etc.), and form a basis on which to build other interesting additions.

[silhouette]

If we have libaries it will go in with the thing from the upcoming thing in dev notes.
The crap 'bout parchments and stuff...

[db48x]

I quite like this idea. There are a lot of effects you could put in. The tome could increase the quality of the final result, or it could allow you to build grander objects. A short bridge is fairly easy, and a mason could figure it out for himself, but with a tome he makes a more elegant structure. A long bridge is more difficult, and might be impossible without the right tome, or if the mason does figure it out, he can create that tome in addition to the bridge. I'd enjoy things like that quite a lot.

[Maggarg - Eater of chicke]

http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=26516.msg313276#msg313276

Found my old library thread. I think it covered a good bit of this whole library thing.

[Footkerchief]

A lot of stuff along these lines is already in the dev notes.  Feel free to add onto it:

# LANGUAGE ARC: The in-game languages need a better framework, as many simple name formulations are impossible in the current system, and it wouldn't hurt to add a basic grammar and phonetics at this time as well. In addition, paper, engraved writing, books, poems, songs, etc. could all be explored in the different game modes in various ways. Related to Core97, Core98, Core99 and Core100.

# Core99, WRITING, (Future): Existing objects (such as wall engravings and blades) need to be able to support writing in any of the in-game languages, and there can be associated skills/professions for this. Requires Core98.

# Core100, NEW LANGUAGE ITEMS, (Future): Parchment, vellum and their buddies then books, songs, poems... all for your entertainment (and horror, if there are random poems). Requires Core99.

# Bloat185, LIBRARIES, (Future): Books and libraries utilizing histories. Once these are in, people that you chat with don't need to know as much. You can find legends here that reveal locations of ruins made by world gen, or your dwarf games. Various other books are possible.

[KenboCalrissian]

This might sound negative at first, but I assure you I'm in favor of the idea.  Just read the whole post first

I don't like when things are removed from the game.  That said, I don't want to see any restrictions imposed upon normal play should I choose not to create a library (i.e., I can't build a Siege Workshop because my dwarves haven't researched how).  Fortunately, it sounds like that's not what you're aiming for.

I could see a library helping to improve the quality of items made by a dwarf who has done research as well as actual work - no free levels, but maybe it adds a +5% or more chance of creating a higher quality item depending on the amount of research the dwarf has done.  Perhaps there are some special cases where items could be restricted by research - I see the Alchemist's lab as a powerful opportunity to exploit research from a library.  There's currently nothing to do with it besides make soap, and it makes so much sense to require studying as a prerequisite for a dwarf to learn to make a special potion in a later build.  Perhaps it could tie in closely with the Magic Arc?

Tomes could become a trade good, or be crafted at a Scribe's workshop (or in the library itself, to keep things simple) by a dwarf with some measure of experience in the area of discussion.  Clearly, the amount of skill bonus gained from reading a tome would be directly proportional to the tome's quality, but the tome's quality would be a special case in that its construction uses two skills - the median between the crafter's Scribe skill, and the skill associated with the topic being written about.  This means a Legendary +5 Woodcrafter/No-skill Scribe is likely to produce the same quality tome as an Accomplished Woodcrafter/Accomplished Scribe (assuming my calculation is correct).

[alfie275]

Considering libraries are full of books, would they burn well?
If so I propose a mission for when this is implemented:
Destroy all libraries, books and smash all stone tablets, kill the all scholars in the world and plunge it into stupidity.

[sweitx]

I think on a Fortress level, libraries should act as a form of experience storage.

For example, you designate a room to be a library, and assign a few dwarf to be a scribe/librarian.
The scribe then goes to each dwarf and "record" the skill of said dwarf (for example, a scribe goes to a master stonemason dwarf).
The scribe, base on their skill, can inscribe a tome of Master Stonecrafting.  Based on the quality of the book, a stonemason dwarf who're lower in skill goes to read it will gain some experience towards a master level in stonecrafting (say a 10% increase, variable to the skill of the scribe, of experience gained in stonecrafting).

[KenboCalrissian]

The scribe then goes to each dwarf and "record" the skill of said dwarf (for example, a scribe goes to a master stonemason dwarf).
The scribe, base on their skill, can inscribe a tome of Master Stonecrafting.  Based on the quality of the book, a stonemason dwarf who're lower in skill goes to read it will gain some experience towards a master level in stonecrafting (say a 10% increase, variable to the skill of the scribe, of experience gained in stonecrafting).

I have to admit, this is a far better mechanic than the one I suggested   Simpler, cleaner, and it's more intuitive, plus it doesn't distract the worker from their job.

[Bricks]

Literacy should also be a skill dwarves need to gain knowledge from books.  Literacy could also be the main skill associated with scribing, since it would be so bizarre to have one without the other.  Making all of your dwarves literate makes for a good end/mid-game goal, since it would be a great productivity boost.

Implementing this would be a little tricky, since books giving a flat experience boost is kind of silly.  Also, I wouldn't expect books to be consumed, so the game would need to track what books the dwarf read, and allow them to gain more skill from a book if their literacy skill improved.  If Toady implements a "knowledge" system, it would be easier to handle books, but that's a big step.

[Lord Shonus]

I think on a Fortress level, libraries should act as a form of experience storage.

For example, you designate a room to be a library, and assign a few dwarf to be a scribe/librarian.
The scribe then goes to each dwarf and "record" the skill of said dwarf (for example, a scribe goes to a master stonemason dwarf).
The scribe, base on their skill, can inscribe a tome of Master Stonecrafting.  Based on the quality of the book, a stonemason dwarf who're lower in skill goes to read it will gain some experience towards a master level in stonecrafting (say a 10% increase, variable to the skill of the scribe, of experience gained in stonecrafting).

Rather than a simple experience gain, I'd suggest an increase in the rate of experience gain depending on the quality of the book. Words on paper can't increase your skills, but they make it easier to spot the flaws in your technique or to spot errors like letting the workpiece get too hot, for example.

[Machinesquid]

Alright, take a moment to hate me for resurrecting old, apparently dead ideas.

*moment*

OK. So, here's the thing. As I've been playing through my single world lately (I generated a large world, just so I could generate a metric shit-ton of history, and I've been playing through on several forts,) I'm a lot more concerned than I would otherwise be about history. I think that at the very least, being able to produce books at your fortress would work like an exceptionally high-value version of engraving, where you are allowed to export the engravings, and pick them up in unrelated cities and towns outside of the fortress in question. might allow the script to rely less on inn-keeps spontaneously knowing obscure information, and even allow scripts (yes, I already know there are a ton) to track important books in history, and allow players to collect books of interest in their own fortress for "harvest" in adventure mode, and then copy them for a varying value based on the quality of the original text. What better food for a strange mood than writing? Even make it so that only copies may be produced except in the case of a strange mood, where an original "tome" is produced.

Also, dwarfs obsessed with collecting books would be amusing. Especially if they have favorites. The day I check Urist McBookworm's bookcase and find twelve copies of "Everybody Poops," I may die happy.

Personally, I'm not a fan of including skill boosts from books.

In the face of the "eternal suggestions" bit, I think this deserves attention.

[Andeerz]

I don't be hatin', yo! 

Thanks for resurrecting this thread!  It's a cool one that deserves to be revisited and discussed further.  Libraries would be awesome, and I wholeheartedly agree with the implementation of writing in game.  However, I believe that the factors that necessitate writing should be better fleshed out in the game first before writing is introduced.  I think it is helpful to do some research on the history of writing to get an idea of these factors...
 
Seriously, read this!  It's a very enlightening take on the original purposes of writing, though not the only one!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Writing#History_of_writing

Basically, from what I gather, writing likely arose from the necessity of recording things like wages of workers, taxes, stockpiles of resources, contracts, laws, royal decrees/legal stuff, history, religious stuff, and recipes (alchemical, "magical", cooking, etc.) among other things.  The basic framework for these necessities already exists in the game for the most part, but needs further development to really make writing something that is indeed useful and needed in the DF world.

In addition, this needs to be developed before writing: Bloat27, ABSTRACT KNOWLEDGE SYSTEM, (Future): Implement a more abstract "knowledge" system. Right now it tracks what items a civilization uses and what creatures it has seen, but there could be general things like how good their crossbow making knowledge is or even points of philosophy and law, etc. Knowledge could be transferred, lost and rediscovered.

Also, I agree that perhaps books shouldn't provide skill boosts...  However, I do think that they should be a way for dwarfs to learn how to do certain reactions at a basic level at workshops if they don't have the luxury of word of mouth and apprenticeship to teach them or a huge amount of time for trial and error.  Basically, I think there should be a knowledge requirement for a dwarf to be able to do a reaction at a workshop, and a book should be able to provide the knowledge to a literate dwarf, but not the skill.   

[The_Kakaze]

I would like it if libraries had access to the legends information.  I dislike having to abandon a fort to check and see if, say, there are any dragons left in the world.

Fun bloat idea:  rewriting history!  Your scribe is really pro dwarf, pro Urist McWargod, so he records the terrible dwarven defeat at Threerivers as win for his team.

[sweitx]

Also, I agree that perhaps books shouldn't provide skill boosts...  However, I do think that they should be a way for dwarfs to learn how to do certain reactions at a basic level at workshops if they don't have the luxury of word of mouth and apprenticeship to teach them or a huge amount of time for trial and error.  Basically, I think there should be a knowledge requirement for a dwarf to be able to do a reaction at a workshop, and a book should be able to provide the knowledge to a literate dwarf, but not the skill.   

What is your view on instead of skill boost, it simply provides a source of experience (at least up to a certain level).