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[Dark_Tundra]

...and the great dwarven artifacer known as Nodlod looks down on his creation and thinks to himself "Hey, one of those humans have made a Dwarf version of HumanFortress... i don't remember coding that in..." cue infinite loop

[eerr]

I don't get it.

[Footkerchief]

I don't get it.

Similar idea to this http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44585.0

[Armok]

Or perhaps http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=46413.0

[LegoLord]

The problem with this is that eventually, you must reach the real world.  And we have no reason to suspect that our's isn't real.

[Armok]

eventually, you must reach the real world.

What, exactly, cause you to make this assumption? There are many imaginable simulation rules that makes a self contained loop of simulations possible.
Not saying that is the case, it's probably not posible to understand the corect answere withouht many, many years of studying computer science, I'm just pointing out you are besing your reasoning on a non-obvius asumption.

[eerr]

eventually, you must reach the real world.

What, exactly, cause you to make this assumption? There are many imaginable simulation rules that makes a self contained loop of simulations possible.
Not saying that is the case, it's probably not posible to understand the corect answere withouht many, many years of studying computer science, I'm just pointing out you are besing your reasoning on a non-obvius asumption.

The origin is finite, and each iteration consumes those finite resources. Therfore the loop is finite, and non-infinite. Very self-referential though.

[Armok]

I am prety sure that with a bit of programing tricks, it would be posible to construct an infinite virtual hirarcy of simulations using finite hardwere. The easiest way I can think of right of my head is a pointer pointing back at a higher level, and while that exact implementation is probably incompatible with our laws of physics, I have a very strong intuition  that something very similar shuld be atleast theoreticaly posible.

[Dark_Tundra]

I don't get it.

Nodlod translates from Dwarf to Toadone, which was as close as i could get.

[eerr]

I am prety sure that with a bit of programing tricks, it would be posible to construct an infinite virtual hirarcy of simulations using finite hardwere. The easiest way I can think of right of my head is a pointer pointing back at a higher level, and while that exact implementation is probably incompatible with our laws of physics, I have a very strong intuition  that something very similar shuld be atleast theoreticaly posible.

If the pointer points back on itself, then the game isn't really running infinitely inside itself, it's just pretending to. The only real indication of progress would be a large integer.

[Armok]

And what exactly is the difference between a program "pretending" to simulate something, and actually simulating it, if the output is identical?

[LegoLord]

Well, let's put it this way.  What's the difference between rendering a movie like Shrek on a computer and simply playing a recording of the rendering (in other words, the DVD)?  The prior requires a lot more power; better graphics card, better RAM would probably help, all kinds of things.  With the DVD, you can just take a crappy computer and give it a DVD drive and DVD playing program.

[Armok]

Actually, in some ways there ISN'T a difference between those, other than one being more optimized than the other.

[redacted123]

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[eerr]

And what exactly is the difference between a program "pretending" to simulate something, and actually simulating it, if the output is identical?

I'm ignore that and assuming the Integer is limited. Probably to the memory inside the computer.
But I can't think of any upgrade that wouldn't also be finite.