Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 14

Author Topic: Bad game design  (Read 17395 times)

Mephisto

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Bad game design
« on: December 17, 2009, 11:31:21 pm »

I'm currently getting extremely pissed off at Persona. Some say it's a good game, but right now I'm saying it's bullshit. I've been in the same battle for 30 minutes of real life time. Why? Fucking status effects! It seems that enemies have an unlimited source of power used to cast these spells and they have nothing against Casting. Charm. On. Everyone. Every. Fucking. Turn. This ends up with all five of my people fully charmed, attacking myself every single turn. Let's not forget to mention that Charm does have a countdown timer. Of two turns. As soon as the turn is up, the bastards refresh it, though.

Anyone else have any examples of game bullshittery?

Most of this has just been redacted. Charm is still bull, but I found out that you can use the single most unused feature in any game ever to fix it. Change your formation and they might possibly stop spamming the shit out of it.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2009, 11:50:28 pm by Mephisto »
Logged

HideousBeing

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Bad game design
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2009, 11:55:19 pm »

I'm playing this game where my dwarves are lit on fire by fireballs. Instead of realizing they are on fire, they run to get a drink of booze from a barrel stockpile and blow the entire store of booze! then again... this could be considered a feature  :)

But truly bad game design? Drakes Fortune. You are an explorer and have to find creative ways to climb walls, but there is only one path. Its really easy to acomplish once you find the correct path, but usually there is something that looks like you can jump and grab it (and can do so in every other instance you see this object), but of course you can't grab this particular one and you fall into oblivion. This was the entire game for me...

EDIT: Eventually the game gave you a tip to find the right spot, but it feels like its making fun of me! I need a hint?! this is your fault game! !@#@
« Last Edit: December 17, 2009, 11:57:39 pm by HideousBeing »
Logged

Neonivek

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Bad game design
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2009, 12:13:40 am »

Goodness I am sure I have quite a bit of these.

In Dwarf Fortress there is an easter egg where someone will fall down a well. Now this is all said and good except this chance only increases with the number of dwarves around it. You can have a well falling epidemic rather easily!

In Creatures 3 your ship has several ecologies. Except that it is relatively easy (by just doing nothing) to have entire species die until all your habitats are boring. It took a Fan made creature (Gaia) to fix this.

Hmm Ill have to think harder... hmmm...

Ohh In Suikeoden 2 there is a series of 5 secret characters (flying Squirls) 4 of the 5 (though if you miss the first squirl you have to try again) require PURE LUCK and psychic powers in order to get. Honestly there is nothing that makes me want to destroy the world more then to try to collect all the flying squirls.
-The exact requirement is your supposed to travel specific roads between two places with no one in your party.  Ive done these for hours and I never got all the squirls. Too bad too because I like Mikumiku.

In Suikeoden 3 you are more then capable of killing your entire party with spells. Worst yet one of your major characters learns a mass attack spell rather early which only serves to kill you and your party the first time you use it. Near the end of the game however characters have such large movement radiuses that they will almost never be hit making the mechanic superfluous.
-Near the end of the game you have to fight 4 bosses with 4 different sets of characters. ALL of them need to be almost maxed out in order to win. What was that? you had a main party for the whole game and havn't trained anyone else? well I hope you have a save point.

Scale in Dragon Age Origins. The issue with the game is that everyone levels with you (even the enemies) but the issue is that they NEVER change the enemies up. So what ends up happening is it entirely kills your sense of scale as even the wolves you fought earlier can easily dismember you. It just makes you feel like a weakling FOREVER!
-This is of course ignoring the equally horrific "I like you" mechanics. Watch as not being a total jerk who only cares about himself and who doesn't have the forsight of a cat causes many of your most important allies to suddenly hate you!
--OHH and let us not forget how expencive many items are in the shop. Some items are SOO expencive that you can litterally NEVER have collected enough money to afford them. Luckly there is an exploit for cash.

Radiata Stories: HOLY GOODNESS! Look Square enix your not getting it. There is NO point to collecting a ton of characters if the vast majority of them are going to be totally useless. Worse yet is your Newgame+ feature is next to useless.
-To explain in Radiata stories you can get almost every character you see on your team. However you cannot change their equipment and they never get better attacks. So if a character wasn't good before you used them. He/she isn't good after you use them.

Dance Dance Revolution (a few of them): Alright I can understand making some songs difficult to unlock, but is there some sort of malicious humor in making some of these songs require either endless flawless input on several songs (like 8) or that require excellence in some of the most infuriatingly difficult songs in the game? I will NEVER have the skill to unlock them and I assume most other people cannot as well. Songs are important features (worse yet I heard the song too, it is good!)
Logged

Mr Tk

  • Bay Watcher
  • Would you like a mint? It's only waffer thin.
    • View Profile
Re: Bad game design
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2009, 12:54:58 am »

Just watch any of the Angry Video Game Nerd videos to see examples of games that have really bad design.
Logged
First ten minutes of play I ate my loincloth and then got some limbs torn off by a super friendly rat. Thumbs up from me.

Neonivek

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Bad game design
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2009, 12:57:37 am »

Just watch any of the Angry Video Game Nerd videos to see examples of games that have really bad design.

Yeah but I was under the impression of these being good games with horrible mechanics... then just flat out bad games.

The only legitimately good game he criticises is Battletoads for being unplayable on 2 player.
Logged

Sensei

  • Bay Watcher
  • Haven't tried coffee crisps.
    • View Profile
Re: Bad game design
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2009, 01:00:34 am »

Banjo Kazooie. That new one.

They had a really good game mechanic going (make an use vehicles out of blocks). In fact it was almost perfect. But then, they filled the entire game with missions ass-pulled from WoW and made the multipayer not have vehicle destruction, as well as there being no way to regulate vehicles (either you have boring premade ones or there's nothing you can do to prevent people from using their cloaking helosubmarine with lasers when you're trying to have a car race).
Logged
Let's Play: Automation! Bay 12 Motor Company Buy the 1950 Urist Wagon for just $4500! Safety features optional.
The Bay 12 & Mates Discord Join now! Voice/text chat and play games with other Bay12'ers!
Add me on Steam: [DFC] Sensei

beorn080

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Bad game design
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2009, 01:13:51 am »

Speaking of WoW, WoW. Lets face it, when your actually DOING something in it, its fairly fun. However, it needs so much grinding for levels, then grinding for gear, that it becomes horribly unfun. I mean, some of the raid boss fights were great, specially the "turns players into living bombs randomly" one, but getting there, oh god.
Logged
Ustxu Iceraped the Frigid Crystal of Slaughter was a glacier titan. It was the only one of its kind. A gigantic feathered carp composed of crystal glass. It has five mouths full of treacherous teeth, enormous clear wings, and ferocious blue eyes. Beware its icy breath! Ustxu was associated with oceans, glaciers, boats, and murder.

Trorbes

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Bad game design
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2009, 01:33:53 am »

In Creatures 3 your ship has several ecologies. Except that it is relatively easy (by just doing nothing) to have entire species die until all your habitats are boring. It took a Fan made creature (Gaia) to fix this.
I say One Hour Stupidity Syndrome still tops that.
Logged

Neonivek

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Bad game design
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2009, 01:43:07 am »

In Creatures 3 your ship has several ecologies. Except that it is relatively easy (by just doing nothing) to have entire species die until all your habitats are boring. It took a Fan made creature (Gaia) to fix this.
I say One Hour Stupidity Syndrome still tops that.

How about the fact that in creatures three if you ever have 8 active creatures at once the incubator shuts down... FOREVER!?!

Or the fact the game uses Slots for all the creatures that need to be preprogrammed in for the creature. So whenever you download a creature you better HOPE he isn't taking up a slot that you otherwise wish to keep. (Actually this is probably worse then the highlander bug)
Logged

HideousBeing

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Bad game design
« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2009, 01:53:56 am »

Speaking of WoW, WoW. Lets face it, when your actually DOING something in it, its fairly fun. However, it needs so much grinding for levels, then grinding for gear, that it becomes horribly unfun. I mean, some of the raid boss fights were great, specially the "turns players into living bombs randomly" one, but getting there, oh god.

I argue that the game mechanic is very good. MMOs want players to keep subscribing... if people play 10 hours to get to the next fun part then the game mechanic does it's job! That said.. it's still not fun.

(mmos are a broken game mechanic...)
Logged

kalida99

  • Bay Watcher
  • ಠ_ರೃ
    • View Profile
Re: Bad game design
« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2009, 02:48:31 am »

I got a few,

Runescape- Back when i used to play it early in the game I thought it was awesome and i would never get bored, but after you get so far you spend entire days doing nothing but freaking GRINDING. Grinding for money, grinding for skills, many of the skills being so ridiculous that they shouldn't even require a skill, LIKE FIREMAKING.

Total war games- These games have a few AI cheats that just make you want to bash in your hard drive, like for instance how the AI can ALWAYS have a full stack even when it would be fiscally impossible. That and sometimes the "Combat Meter" jumbles around so first i'm winning decisively, then losing decisively, then we're even, then both party's die...

Stalker SoC- The AI shoots through walls at me, and can spot me even if i snipe them from across the map with a silenced sniper rifle.


The best MMO was the original Everquest, with MASSIVE raids needing hundreds of people, A HUGE world, and addicting gameplay, and it doesn't really have much Unfun Grinding.
Logged
Let's see how those degenerate sophisticates handle a healthy dose of pure unreasoning violence.
— Commander Fleyitch

Blaze

  • Bay Watcher
  • The Chaos that Crawls up on you with a Smile.
    • View Profile
Re: Bad game design
« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2009, 03:07:59 am »

I still can't believe it wasn't mentioned: ESCORT MISSIONS. I absolutely despise baby-sitting Artificial Idiocy.

Unskippable cutscenes: King's Field: The Ancient City's one was particularly horrible. Not only can you not skip the mind-numbingly long opening cutscene, but it's possible to die within two seconds of actually playing which you will probably do the first time you play forcing you to watch it AGAIN.

Random Drop Fetching: MMO's are particularly guilty of this. Need "that one item" for "that one quest"? All you have to do is wander around in "that one zone" to find "that one monster" then pray that it drops what you need. Prepare to spend hours beating up goblins until you collect the 5 goblin thongs that you need to access the next area.

Racing Game AI: They tend to be stupidly easy once you have the lead (Need for Speed), magically gets super powerups (Mario Kart), or gains the ability to go 4x faster than you (F-Zero).

AI in general: When trying to not die, DON'T JUMP IN FRONT OF THE CAR I'M DRIVING.

Ridiculous Level Scaling: Oblivion's random raiders with full daedric equipment for one. And all the MMORPG's that go from level 1 in one "zone" and level 100 in the next with absolutely no warning.

Random Encounters: I don't WANT to buy any more goddamn ultra repels. You'd think they'd learn that after so many games.

Once-in-a-save-game-chance: FF games tend to do this A LOT.

MMO's "Donation" Features: It's just ew.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2009, 03:10:17 am by Blaze »
Logged

Tilla

  • Bay Watcher
  • Slam with the best or jam with the rest
    • View Profile
Re: Bad game design
« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2009, 03:14:20 am »

Adding unnecessary extra gameplay modes - so many a solid game has been ruined by a poorly placed driving mission. The latest Sonic game is a good example, trying to pad out the lack of content by putting in the 'werehog' (worst idea ever?) god-of-war/devil-may-cry knock-off levels that nobody liked.
Logged

Asehujiko

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Bad game design
« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2009, 03:45:40 am »

Dragon Age. Discouraging exploration by making your companions freak out about not putting on horse blinders. Fuck you Morrigan and Sten. Hope you have fun in the camp while i do everything with the dog, allistair and whatever that jeanne d'arc clone only used for looting crap is called.

My next point, why do i have to lug around a useless character around exclusively for opening chests? Can't i just bash open the locks or fireball them off? And why can't i just tell her to do so instead of switching to her manual control everything i encounter something more solid then a cobweb?
Logged
Code: [Select]
Tremble, mortal, and despair! Doom has come to this world!
.....EEEE..E..E.E...EEE.EE.EE.EEE.EE..EE.EE.E.EE.EE.E.EE.
......E..EE.EE.EE.EE..E...EEEE..E..E.E...EEE.EEE...E.EEE.
.☺..EE.E...E.EE.EE...E.EE..E..EE.EE.EE.EE..E...EE.EE..E.E
.....E..E.E.E.E.E.EE.E.E.EE.E...E.EE.EE...E.EE.EE.EEE...E
....E.EE.EEE.EE..EE.EE.E..EEEE..E..E.E...EEE.EEE..E.E..EE

Sean Mirrsen

  • Bay Watcher
  • Bearer of the Psionic Flame
    • View Profile
Re: Bad game design
« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2009, 04:35:26 am »

I disagree on additional gameplay modes. Done right, makes the game wonderful. Like Space Rangers.

And random encounters are a necessary evil in games that can't afford to accurately model monster movement.

I don't remember many games I considered to be exceptionally awful. I usually find something to like in any game I see. Off the top of my head, there's Demolition Champions, a Destruction Derby wannabe. With awful physics and hardly any visible damage model. Yes, a game about crashing cars without a damage model. Just about the worst I've seen.
Logged
Multiworld Madness Archive:
Game One, Discontinued at World 3.
Game Two, Discontinued at World 1.

"Europe has to grow out of the mindset that Europe's problems are the world's problems, but the world's problems are not Europe's problems."
- Subrahmanyam Jaishankar, Minister of External Affairs, India
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 14