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[Shoku]

Are there any moles in the game?

Letsee, squirrels, armadillos, porcupines, mongoose... flamingos, newts... are there any scorpions in?
Ooh, I forgot about adding giant praying mantises I wanted to do. Uh, normal sized those would just be vermin...

its moot as far as this project goes.

Fun fact: Moot is defined as "open to argument or debate"

Mammoth sounds reasonable to me. They're significantly different from elephants, and would make a useful hunting target for those settling in icy areas, as well as good challenge to those daft dwarves who insist on settling in haunted glaciers.

I don't think that really carries the meaning very well. It's something that you would only debate for the purpose of debate. It's otherwise pointless.

Next up: lagomorphs.  I should note here that the pika, which is listed in the OP as a rodent, is in fact a lagomorph.

Lagomorphs are practically rodents and they were classified together less than a century ago.

If rats can chew through steel... i wouldn't approach a capybara...

I've heard stories of Beavers

The oddest story I've heard of Beavers is that they had the ability to chew through arms... but that claim just seems rediculous.

They can definitely pierce skin and given time I don't doubt they could gnaw through a bone but chomping through in one go is hard to believe.

Ohh...

well Ill list two then

-Sea Scorpian (Extinct): Some got as large as 2.5 meters large
-Horseshoe Crab (It is more related to a Spider and has an amazing immune system that we take advantage of even today)

Which reminds me of an important detail: we should be sure to give all the mollusks blue blood. Instead of hemoglobin (iron) they have hemocyanin (copper.)

This thread gave me an idea that renders this project somewhat useless trivial redundant something you don't really need to do.

http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=46852.0

Divergent evolution comes from a pretty frequent selective pressure: do something different so you don't have to compete with as many species. The reason I bring this up has to do with the bell curve for things like size and those other measurements. Shift the two away from each other to either extreme (you'll usually push a bit past it actually,) and you'll have a decent approximation.

In the case that they're not enclosed in the area and have some gene flow between larger populations only the species that stopped breeding with that would change much. Realistically when animals have mates around they won't just cut themselves off from the larger population without something like a mating ritual that gets off kilter. If this ever ends up giving creatures particular diets you could easily have different species trying to stop overlapping each other, whether that means two types of condor or a hyena and a lion.

Having a world gen setting for how often to do this would probably be a good idea as some people may want their deer almost always being pygmy or dire versions of the raw defined creature while others while others would want their deer to basically be deer. A default of having it happen to a particular animal in about 1 in 3 of the biomes it shows up in might be about right but you don't need to change the size every time as with some animals just changing the color could be suitable and as a lot of people have noticed the differences aren't actually that big for things like mice of the same genus.

Or particularly mentioning in the raws how frequently to split an animal type could do it too.

(should we stay away from "created breeds"?).

I'd say no as basically all food crops are "created breeds" but I doubt many of the players really know anything about historic agriculture beyond how growing your food gives you more time to figure out how to crack someone else's skull. The thousand or so years we run world gen for is probably not enough to go from some grass to modern wheat but it's plenty of time for taking an already domesticated species and make a lot of different varieties of it or lightly domesticate wild species.

I think the medieval diversity of dogs wasn't much compared to what we think of today- with the modern techniques of selective breeding you can get a lot done in just a few decades but without it that kind of thing takes much longer and is almost as much about chance.

I wish I knew the name of the beatle (or however you spell it) that lives near my house. It has a beautiful (in fact stunning) shimmering green shell so much so that I nicknamed it the Emerald Beatle.

You should have a decent chance of being able to tell us what family it fits into: http://bugguide.net/node/view/60

[Neonivek]

So far the Beetle I am speaking of is called the Tiger Beetle

Which is a horrible name. Though I don't remember any spots. Ohh I see that was the Six Spotted Tiger Beetle.

I think they are called "Flashy Tiger Beetle" but it is all confusing on that site... Hmm Though "Tiger Beetle" also works.

Either way, Family: Carabidae (Ground Beetles)

Looking at that site I find that a lot of simply stunning beetles (and I am sure it isn't exclusive to beetles) are simply given names based based on their cousins and that is why they often arn't given due: I seen beetles with golden metalic sheens on that site that arn't given more then the term "Rounded Fungus beetle"

[Shoku]

So far the Beetle I am speaking of is called the Tiger Beetle

Which is a horrible name. Though I don't remember any spots. Ohh I see that was the Six Spotted Tiger Beetle.

I think they are called "Flashy Tiger Beetle" but it is all confusing on that site... Hmm Though "Tiger Beetle" also works.

Either way, Family: Carabidae (Ground Beetles)

Looking at that site I find that a lot of simply stunning beetles (and I am sure it isn't exclusive to beetles) are simply given names based based on their cousins and that is why they often arn't given due: I seen beetles with golden metalic sheens on that site that arn't given more then the term "Rounded Fungus beetle"

Taxonomy is more about being practical than praising particular species so that's regularly the case but we don't have to use the taxonomy names in DF so long as we know what we're referencing and can think up a more period style name.

[Neonivek]

I am aware Shoku, especially since they would quickly run out of names for these insects as there are thousands.

It is just rather disapointing, or more accurately "The Boring Answer"

[Shoku]

I am aware Shoku, especially since they would quickly run out of names for these insects as there are thousands.

It is just rather disapointing, or more accurately "The Boring Answer"

Well you've got the Latin naming system to keep that one from ever being an issue. People will name the bird louse or whatever they've been studying for months/years after an enemy's wife at that level.

At the less specific level most people can handle distinguishing bugs there's this old system people used to put a lot of effort into-
1. Does it have lens eyes? If yes go to 2. No 7.
2. Is the optic nerve in front of or behind the retina? Front 3. Behind 6.
3. Does it give birth to live young? Yes 4. No 5.
4.(probably a mammal but this chart sucks so maybe not.)
5.(probably a bird of lizard)
6.(Octopus)
7. Is it a tree? Yes 8. No 9.
8. it's a tree dummy.
9. I dunno, maybe a flatworm?

Though to be more serious about it you'd actually organize things so that the end option would be more definite. As such calling something a round fungus beetle was rather important while with text there's really no way of describing if it was shiny green or shiny green. The actual spots, stripes, and patterns on so many insects vary far too much to recognize any kind of relationship between them so they went with diet, habitat, or if all else failed whatever they fancied naming them.

But ya, generally the field of biology seems to not attract many people who are creative.

[Pasakoye]

I think we should have more types of carp.
Goldfish and Koi would be good choices. I think Koi should be non aggressive or found in good zones, so we can have gardens with them, if we ever have potted plants that would give dwarfs happy thoughts. And Goldfish could be vermin, I guess.

Edit:
Is it possible for a creature to be classed as a vermin in in a younger stage of its life, let's say a Giant Caterpillar (Can be killed by cats and maybe be a pet), then a non hostile cocoon (All it does is age and never needs to eat. Maybe still a vermin so it would be a little harder to find one) that then changes into a Giant Butterfly (Think Giant Eagle with many legs)?

Edit2:
I looked and didn't see much info on changing castes (maybe I didn't search for the right words, Shoku I found more about it in a different thread)  but I guess metamorphosis is out of the picture for now. Still, Giant Butterflies would be neat until you angered them.

Since body part size can change over time, can wings start too small to support the creature for flying? If so, maybe it would be possible to have very small wings that grow over time. So at the age of a year grow at a fast pace and become usable for the creature.

I'm new and I'm trying to help with the ideas. I'm learning a lot on how the inside of this game works so if this is the wrong place to ask such questions let me know.

[Neonivek]

I've seen Goldfish get pretty large though. Maybe not super huge but they are the largest fish in the pond near my house

Though let me check the other Fish Vermin. It may be unrelated to size.

*Checking*

Alright yeah keep Goldfish as Vermin

[Shoku]

I think we should have more types of carp.
Goldfish and Koi would be good choices. I think Koi should be non aggressive or found in good zones, so we can have gardens with them, if we ever have potted plants that would give dwarfs happy thoughts. And Goldfish could be vermin, I guess.

Edit:
Is it possible for a creature to be classed as a vermin in in a younger stage of its life, let's say a Giant Caterpillar (Can be killed by cats and maybe be a pet), then a non hostile cocoon (All it does is age and never needs to eat. Maybe still a vermin so it would be a little harder to find one) that then changes into a Giant Butterfly (Think Giant Eagle with many legs)?

Feel like counting the number of times we've said that something can't change castes during it's life?

[madjoe5]

I think we should have more types of carp.
Goldfish and Koi would be good choices. I think Koi should be non aggressive or found in good zones, so we can have gardens with them, if we ever have potted plants that would give dwarfs happy thoughts. And Goldfish could be vermin, I guess.

Edit:
Is it possible for a creature to be classed as a vermin in in a younger stage of its life, let's say a Giant Caterpillar (Can be killed by cats and maybe be a pet), then a non hostile cocoon (All it does is age and never needs to eat. Maybe still a vermin so it would be a little harder to find one) that then changes into a Giant Butterfly (Think Giant Eagle with many legs)?

Feel like counting the number of times we've said that something can't change castes during it's life?

Going through such changes isn't necessarily going to involve caste changes. It might be possible to do this by fiddling with the system that brings a dwarf from a baby, to a child to an adult.

[Pasakoye]

Going through such changes isn't necessarily going to involve caste changes. It might be possible to do this by fiddling with the system that brings a dwarf from a baby, to a child to an adult.

Do dwarf babies / children have beards? If they don't, but then gain them as adults, maybe the code for beards can apply for wings. I'm still looking at the examples for ideas.

[Thursday Postal]

Rainseeker -
Got these in the wrong category under australia, probably best to put them in Unorganized Extinct animals, as the river dolphin is from asia and the giant elk is from europe!

River Dolphin - Friendly river animals, something not likely to maul fishermen
Giant Elk - Nonlocational name for the Irish Elk, one of the largest deer with the largest set of antlers

[Warlord255]

Going through such changes isn't necessarily going to involve caste changes. It might be possible to do this by fiddling with the system that brings a dwarf from a baby, to a child to an adult.

Do dwarf babies / children have beards? If they don't, but then gain them as adults, maybe the code for beards can apply for wings. I'm still looking at the examples for ideas.

The main criteria would have to be whether or not the part is invisible/immune to interaction before it grows; if this is the case, then sprouting new parts with age is entirely reasonable. If not, however, I wager we'd have problems like caterpillars with little wing nubs on their backs that can get mangled early on.

[Thursday Postal]

I wager we'd have problems like caterpillars with little wing nubs on their backs that can get mangled early on.

Well, if it's possible you could put them inside and possibly make them invsible (on the parts screen) until metamorphosis?

I mean, if we're talking an animal like a caterpillar, I doubt they can take much damage anywhere and survive too long.

[NRN_R_Sumo1]

butterflies and caterpillars should just be seperate really, both as differant vermin in the same biomes.
I dont know if cacoons would be a great thing to implement.. as they probably would be rather buggy.

[Cruxador]

Birds need some love.

Phorusrhacidae, also known as "terror birds" deserve to be in here. They're both interesting and awesome, and provide a pretty good creature to interact with on a general scale.

A Moa is a similar creature on the non-predatory side of things. They're less of a necessity, but they still could be good.

I for one also want a variety of mundane creatures- pigs and tame goats, chickens, sheep... then maybe some castes for dogs and cats, then get into some of the more exotic but real creatures like zebras and gazelles, some large lizards.

Pigs, sheep, goats and chickens don't really require validation. We already know most people want them, so they can go right up on the list.
Zebras and Gazelles sound good to me. Monitors are good, I don't know what else there is by way of big lizards.