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Author Topic: How hard are goblins?  (Read 683 times)

Dorfus

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How hard are goblins?
« on: December 17, 2009, 11:20:26 am »

I've played a few quick forts with goblins as the main enemy and every time a few champions slaughtered an entire siege with barely a scratch. I then started playing with the orc mod but they are so persistent it's quite tough to get any serious outdoor projects done in any reasonable time. I think I read somewhere that sieges become more intense the more wealthy your fort becomes so my question is this: how hard to repel can goblin sieges be for a wealthy fort? I don't mean through use of traps or drowning/magma chambers but just in terms of military dwarves in a pitched battle.

I like having a military challenge in the game but I also like to be able to work on projects. If a few armed and armored champions can lay waste to any goblin siege then I'll stick to orcs, otherwise I'll give it a go with just the gobbos.
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smjjames

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Re: How hard are goblins?
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2009, 11:30:52 am »

Not very, you can deal with them using traps only and a few champions can deal with an entire siege. Crossbowgobs/bowgobs can be a problem, but if you have trained your military in shield use, it shouldn't be a major issue.

When I had invaders off for a long while and wanted to turn it back on, I was slightly anxious about the sieges, but then remembered that goblins are pretty pathetic.
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Roostre

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Re: How hard are goblins?
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2009, 11:31:53 am »

I've reason to think that the ability to defend your whole fort with only a few champions, and literally no other military dwarves, is something that'll be corrected in a later release. They're overpowered at the moment.
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Lemunde

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Re: How hard are goblins?
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2009, 11:39:51 am »

I think the problem is you get champions way too early.  I think I was on my third year by the time I got one when I started training sworddwarves.  The way I see it, champions are doing exactly what they're supposed to be doing fighting off hordes of goblins by themselves because that's what the name "champion" implies.  Maybe they would  have more meaning if you didn't get them until your tenth year or longer.

Personally I don't mind having powerful units early on because my focus usually isn't on military but on crafts and projects and making my fortress look good and my dwarves happy.
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The Architect

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Re: How hard are goblins?
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2009, 11:43:25 am »

I've reason to think that the ability to defend your whole fort with only a few champions, and literally no other military dwarves, is something that'll be corrected in a later release. They're overpowered at the moment.

The military system is changed in the next release. I'll just give a few details to give you an idea:
Weapons now do damaged based on physical attributes like mass, density, and edge. They inflict damage differently, so one thing we won't be seeing anymore (supposedly) is massive instantaneous dismemberment of any and all creatures hit by a sword or axe. This should make battles more interesting.
Armor behaves differently, acting more like a layer of protection that can be punctured or bypassed by different types of damage, with plate mail and chain mail acting differently.
Dwarves are trained in different ways, supervised by instructors.
Dwarves have only one champion, appointed by a noble. The rest of your legendary military will just be legendary military.
Squads are organized completely differently, with schedules that can be stored and changed. Dwarves' on duty / off duty behavior is changed dramatically.

There are many more changes. For details, you should look at what Toady has posted. The upshot is that combat should be more varied and interesting, and combined with the new creatures and underground the game will obviously change dramatically.

It should be out just about any day, people. The list of remaining things only has 2 things left on it before testing. I'm predicting we will see it before the end of the month!
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Dorfus

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Re: How hard are goblins?
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2009, 11:44:59 am »

Well that's good news. I'll hold off any super time consuming mega projects and just mess around. Perhaps try to create a one dwarf military and have him slay as many sieges as possible. Shouldn't be too hard if I can procure some happy metal.
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Grendus

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Re: How hard are goblins?
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2009, 11:46:50 am »

While I think that champions should be as powerful as they are, I agree that they shouldn't be so easy to get. Wrestlers can hit legendary inside of a season or two, weapon users only take a season or so longer. Inside of a year, your soldiers can be unbreakable. Give them steel, and you'll never have goblin problems again.
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The Architect

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Re: How hard are goblins?
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2009, 11:47:49 am »

I would recommend 3 dwarves. One to be off-duty or stupid when you need him, and the other two to cover each other when one turns his back on an enemy and gets a bolt for his trouble. They can't dodge, block or parry when they don't see it coming, so... yea. Things get bad with one-dwarf militaries.

Of course, if what you want is one poor dwarf fending off the enemy with a bolt up his arse and two broken legs, passing out or getting tired and being overwhelmed by sheer numbers, then you should ignore my advice and proceed with the sadism.
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Dorfus

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Re: How hard are goblins?
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2009, 11:49:54 am »

Yeah it sounds like fun. The idea is I'll have one super dwarf who goes out, alone, to attack enemies. If he should die, I conscript the entire fort and send them out en masse to dispatch the invaders. Then the one amongst them who I think looked the coolest in battle gets to be the new army. The advantage is that in peace time I get many more dwarves to commit to projects.
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The Architect

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Re: How hard are goblins?
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2009, 12:03:14 pm »

Well, he'll at least need a sparring partner. Unless you begin by capturing practice subjects to drop a level or two, stunned, for him to beat up.
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