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[JoshuaFH]

I take it then that mages have really buff 'magic muscles'?

By that, I mean that an experienced practitioner will have more stamina that a newbie?

[deadlycairn]

Or you could interpret it more literally - the most powerful mages really are all buff hunks. At least that would banish that annoying frail magician stereotype.

My magic systems have few (in-universe, but there is actually a reason, it's just too convuluted to be common knowledge) explanations for how they work, but very detailed layouts as to exactly what can be done with them. I'm also a fan of magic as an almost sentient force, by which I mean it can control, or manipulate it's users, in some situations it can be completely random, and finally, every good thing comes with a bad thing.

As an example, my most fleshed out magic system is split into roughly 10 "castes" of magic users. Everyone has magical abilities, limited to their caste of magic. One caste has extremely limited conscious magical abilities, yet can react with unprecedented magical prowess in some situations, completely instinctually (which ties in with the controlled by magic and random magic themes). Every single caste has a 'Fate' - an unpleasant consequence of their magical abilities. The aforementioned random caste (shapeshifter-esque creatures) are always at risk of going berserk, or getting stuck between forms. The more traditional Elemental castes will die an unpleasant death related to the element they control. This is actually a reasonably nice Fate - the two worst fates are being tormented eternally after death, or being perpetually at risk of falling off the face of the Earth should the person lose concentration.

I tend to talk way too much about this, so I'll stop here. 

[EagleV]

I take it then that mages have really buff 'magic muscles'?

By that, I mean that an experienced practitioner will have more stamina that a newbie?

They tend to have more stamina/endurance, yes, but the most important measure of 'strength' of the magic user is how much they can do with a certain amount of energy. While a novice mage is able to break someones neck, a more advanced mage might simply sever some vital nerves, thus getting the exact same effect (dead) with far less energy.

[deadlycairn]

So basically, you could measure a magic user's power by their 'finesse', so to speak?

[dragnar]

I take it then that mages have really buff 'magic muscles'?

By that, I mean that an experienced practitioner will have more stamina that a newbie?

They tend to have more stamina/endurance, yes, but the most important measure of 'strength' of the magic user is how much they can do with a certain amount of energy. While a novice mage is able to break someones neck, a more advanced mage might simply sever some vital nerves, thus getting the exact same effect (dead) with far less energy.

It's actually always annoyed me mages never do things like this. Why throw a fireball at someone? Instead just raise the temperature of his brain ~20 degrees. Or instead of slowing time for your enemy, slow only his heart. There are many ways to kill someone if you have the ability to manipulate energy 100% efficiently, which is often a pretty accurate description of magic's effects.

[EagleV]

So basically, you could measure a magic user's power by their 'finesse', so to speak?

Yes, and their knowledge of the magic language.

[deadlycairn]

So the really stuffy looking old professor is to be feared, as he can break every bone in your body, while others would just kill you?

[EagleV]

So the really stuffy looking old professor is to be feared, as he can break every bone in your body, while others would just kill you?

Well, apart from the fact that most magic users tend to have quite shoirt lives, and natural stamina clearly lowers when you get older, no matter how strong your mind might be, they could. But they won't as it would be very energy-inneficient. I'm sure a very intelligent mage could come up with thousands of more painfull, longer, and more energy-efficient ways to kill you. Also, humans usually don't live long enough to learn much more than the basics. Of course, this depends on the rest of the setting (eg, are there any other races, that live longer? Are some people naturally extremely gifted? Etc...)

[deadlycairn]

The whole point of breaking every bone in your body is that it wouldn't kill you, at least not at first.

And I suppose an energy efficient way of doing it would be to induce the victims brain to override the limitations that normally restrict ones muscles from tensing to the point that they break the bones?

[Bricks]

I always thought Eragon's system left way too many easy ways to kill people, as mentioned.  Magical duels were also very short, as they were more about surprising your enemy in ways he couldn't understand.  A fix would be to assume that anything living has some sort of magical willpower to overcome direct meddling with their minds and bodies, so while that magic would still be possible, you'd have to overcome some sort of innate resistance.

[deadlycairn]

I think it dealt with that with a mix of Mutually Assured Destruction, and what you just said. Any mage dumb enough to just launch a straight out kill spell, even if it worked, would be cut down in turn, and the mages are trained to protect their minds from enemy meddling, so the duels consist of each trying to make the other lose concentration. Clearly noone has heard of suicide mages.

What would be your ideal magic duel? Mine would be a multi-tasking nightmare - a battle in the centre of the defender's mind, where he has the homefield advantage against the attacker and all sorts of crazy stuff happens, while simultaneously the mages are physically duking it out with spells and weapons. The aim is to either get past the others mental defenses and so render them defenceless, or distract them long enough to burn their face off with a fireball

[JoshuaFH]

However, it would appear that mages can only defend themselves from attackers that they're aware of. Is that how it works? I've never seen Eragon.

If so though, wouldn't that a make mages ideal assassins?

[Bricks]

In a sense, they kind of were.  It comes up a bit in one of the books.  However, apart from the elves, who are largely peaceful, and the dragon riders, who are usually the enforcers of law, magic users lacked both the knowledge to phrase the spells (grammar and vocabulary) and the strength to use them.  They typically banded together and used their collective power to establish protective wards.

The whole "battle in their minds" thing always struck me as sort of lame.  Wizards should be innately resolute persons, with impenetrable minds.  Obviously, trying to best a wizard on his own turf would be difficult, because the resident could set up all sorts of wards and defenses.  However, this means a wizard should always be on guard outside their own homes, probably seeking traveling companions or hired help.  When it comes to wizard vs. wizard, I'd expect the battlefield to rapidly degenerate and the environment to spiral out of control as spells ran up against each other and spilled onto the surroundings.  The added complexity of the spells would make concentration and careful wording more important than usual, and misspoken spells would add to the chaos.

[deadlycairn]

I mean like a TVTropes battle in the mind, ie. A metaphorical landscape representing the psyche of the defender, and partially the attacker. The defender is allowing the attacker partially into his mind, as doing so allows him to try to penetrate the attackers mind. Physically, they'll just be standing around, maybe throwing the occasional spell, or even in melee combat if they're skilled, but mentally they'll be dueling in an ever-changing mind scape, reacting to their thoughts and their constant attempts to trick the other.

It allows epic magic battles, but without the unfortunate side effect of a blasted, desolate landscape that would occur in my setting, as magic duels are not uncommon.

[JoshuaFH]

Why do the wizards fight so often? Can they not love instead?