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[The Architect]

Geez, talk about extrapolation. There's no freaking suggestion there at all. He's just pointing out that this is a redundant topic, and giving a helpful link. Infer what you will.

[father_alexander]

well, i personally think that if the idea is well aplied it could be quite fun and interesting.For starters the slavery mechanic is already there its just not so present (goblins can have slaves or at least i think they can).

I think a system somewhat like johnlukeG and darkflagrance suggested could be interesting, like slavery is more of an option than a need, you should be able to set the laws of your fortress/settlement about this, like wether you make slavery legal or a crime, also some dwarves should get unhappy from seeing slaves since slavery should be seen wrong from their ethics, while other might even enjoy seeing slaves.

this shoudl change from civ to civ, humans for example should be more ok than elves with slavery but less than goblins, making goblins and elves the extremes, goblins loving slavery and elves hating it, i dont like the idea of purchasing slaves too much, i think you should be able to train them, as for elves, i think they should only worry about your elvish slaves.

[Ze Spy]

good idea, i don't want my dwarfs to run across the fortress just to haul shit when my cages full of goblins can do it

[Glacies]

I'm hoping integration of other races into the fort can happen in a more general way. Slavery would be nice, but having a group of goblins immigrate because the dwarves in my fort are famous for slaughtering kittens and elves in droves would be awesome...er, I suppose this is a bit off topic, so...P'raps, like thieves, slaves could make a break for it and run to the edge of the map if there are no guards around to catch them?

[archie200034]

Perhaps some could try to flee when the next ambush comes? Or even better, a rescue party comes to free all the slaves, or just the slaves of one faction or race.

[Uristocrat]

I was going to suggest this.  But I wanted to suggest that it involve Gnomes and Gnomeblight.

So you lay these Gnome traps that are baited with a gem (to attract the gnomes) and some Gnomeblight (to knock out the Gnome... hey, let's just pretend it got that name for a reason).  Sure, it has a high chance of getting stolen (unless you remembered to use a high quality mechanism in the trap), but if you catch a Gnome, your Dungeon Master can train it and then you have a new item hauler.

Oh, except that Gnomes like to steal gems and socks if your stockpiles aren't secure.  And, if caught, they're sent to the Hammerer (with predictable results).  But Gnomes only eat vermin (not just kill, *eat*) rather than depleting your fortress stocks, so they're more useful than Nobles (which is why they're so expensive to acquire... you probably don't have that many gems and you always need item haulers).

[FreakyCheeseMan]

Letting them move around freely seems a bit much to me, as I doubt they'd be *that* well broken. However, there are other options.

For example, you could have slave-enabled workshops, built with cages or chains in them, as well as slave quarters- similar in nature to prisons. During the day, the slaves work in their assigned rooms- peasants would have to bring them items to work with, and take away the results, but that could be part of the hauling overhaul. Special dwarves would be assigned to care for the slaves, bringing them food and water and transporting them to their pens when it's time for them to sleep (or they could sleep in their offices). Of course, you'd have the same problems you do now with prisons, where dwarves fail to bring them needed water until they die, but hey, slaves.

It would even follow that certain races would be better for certain jobs. Elves, for instance, keep bringing us those nifty wooden trinkets, right? So, put them to work making wooden crafts out of their precious trees. Toiling away, far from the sun, working with the "murdered" remains of their "friends"... hey, since the goods would be elven-made, it should be ok to sell them to elves, right?

And goblins. They're morbid little bastards, amiright? Natural bonecrafters. So make the ones that fall to your cage traps build stuff out of the ones that fall to your soldiers.

[G-Flex]

Dwarven society already canonically disallows slavery, and for good reason: Dwarves take pride in their work, especially skilled labor and craftsmanship. I could never see a dwarven society using slaves to produce any sort of crafts, because that either means that they're disrespecting the art by having an inferior creature do it, or that they aren't inferior creatures at all, causing slavery as a system to cease functioning since it relies on that.

For other races, it makes perfect sense, especially goblins and humans... although goblin society is so screwed-up as a whole that they'd need a bunch of other changes as well in order to play properly.

[FreakyCheeseMan]

Dwarven society already canonically disallows slavery, and for good reason: Dwarves take pride in their work, especially skilled labor and craftsmanship. I could never see a dwarven society using slaves to produce any sort of crafts, because that either means that they're disrespecting the art by having an inferior creature do it, or that they aren't inferior creatures at all, causing slavery as a system to cease functioning since it relies on that.

For other races, it makes perfect sense, especially goblins and humans... although goblin society is so screwed-up as a whole that they'd need a bunch of other changes as well in order to play properly.

By this rational Dwarves wouldn't import anything, either.

Let's be honest here. We're talking about a group of caravan-robbing, kitten-butchering, prisoner-starving, genocide-committing, too-deep-digging alcoholic regicides.*

They ain't the good guys. **

*Who over-log.
*The Rhesus Macaques are.

[derekiv]

I think slavery would be an interesting addition, and would allow for something to do with all the sentients in cage traps.

[RedWarrior0]

Often, the concept of "dwarven" is artificial. Butchering kittens, slaughtering elves, magma, stealing caravans, and regicide are side effects of either incompleteness or player boredom combined with open-endedness. 

[FreakyCheeseMan]

Often, the concept of "dwarven" is artificial. Butchering kittens, slaughtering elves, magma, stealing caravans, and regicide are side effects of either incompleteness or player boredom combined with open-endedness. 

In my opinion, "Incompleteness, player boredom and open-endedness" is the very *core* of what it is to be dwarven.

[G-Flex]

Dwarven society already canonically disallows slavery, and for good reason: Dwarves take pride in their work, especially skilled labor and craftsmanship. I could never see a dwarven society using slaves to produce any sort of crafts, because that either means that they're disrespecting the art by having an inferior creature do it, or that they aren't inferior creatures at all, causing slavery as a system to cease functioning since it relies on that.

For other races, it makes perfect sense, especially goblins and humans... although goblin society is so screwed-up as a whole that they'd need a bunch of other changes as well in order to play properly.

By this rational Dwarves wouldn't import anything, either.

Sure, if they're importing it from slaves. My point wasn't that dwarves never let anyone aside from them create anything or do work, it's that they wouldn't want their work (especially on a daily basis, right there at home) being done by something their society explicitly casts aside as inferior or not people.

Often, the concept of "dwarven" is artificial. Butchering kittens, slaughtering elves, magma, stealing caravans, and regicide are side effects of either incompleteness or player boredom combined with open-endedness. 

Whereas dwarves not engaging in slavery is an explicit part of what they are.

[Rowanas]

1: A lot of cultures had very skilled and trusted slaves that could do all kinds of very specialist work.

2: Slaves are (historically) rarely thought of as inferior, merely unlucky or just plain conquered. Being a slave was often just a sign that your lot had lost an important battle, not "we're intrinsically better than you".

[Pilsu]

The reasons for dwarven abhorrence of slavery are mere conjecture either way. It's not worth bickering over. If memory serves though, it's the humans that are canonically xenophobic. Not sure if that tag was applied to dwarves.

It'd be rather strange if humans didn't have their slaves doing any crafting work.