Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Neonivek]

Well the problem is that intollerance is a lot more of a modern concept.

Hah. Really?

I must be wrong on nearly a thousand years of history.

Unfortunately yeah

Though I am speaking from a connotative point of view. None of this wimpy "Ohh they should be intollerant".

Intollerant!?! What the heck? that implies some sort of tollerance. Someone does something you don't like? just kill them off.. EASY

[Hippoman]

I always thought consort meant assistant.

[Neonivek]

I always thought consort meant assistant.

Kinda makes me wonder what Cohort means

[Akigagak]

Well the problem is that intollerance is a lot more of a modern concept.

Hah. Really?

I must be wrong on nearly a thousand years of history.

Unfortunately yeah

Though I am speaking from a connotative point of view. None of this wimpy "Ohh they should be intollerant".

Intollerant!?! What the heck? that implies some sort of tollerance. Someone does something you don't like? just kill them off.. EASY

I'm sorry, but what?

What you said make no sense.

At all.

Please provide evidence that there was any sort of tolerance for anything that didn't fit in with the church during the 1000s' onwards.

[Neonivek]

I think your confusing what I mean Akigagak.

[Akigagak]

That isn't exactly hard.

Trying being clearer.

[Neonivek]

That isn't exactly hard.

Trying being clearer.

I don't know if it is possible to convey what I am trying to say in ways people can understand. So I give up

[Deon]

Escaped Lunatic Troll.

[Sowelu]

Back on topic:  Yeah, I remember hearing about this being a bug.  I think it would be neat as a feature, though.  I'm guessing it was something about the consort being generated for a different character than the Duke, but being sent along with the Duke anyway.

[Retro]

Actually, prior to the mid-1300s or so, the old world was mostly comprised of dar al-Islam - more or less, everywhere except Europe was not completely Islamic but Islamic to one degree or another, to the point where one traveller (Ibn Batttta) was able to travel throughout Asia, India, parts of the Mediterranean, and Africa without experiencing any real culture shock or not being in a predominantly Islamic area. And this was back when Islam was exercising tolerance towards other religions, before the Safavids started getting aggressive towards the Ottomans about what branch of Islam was better. Europe, meanwhile, was kind of doing its own thing, and being out of the trade loop nobody else (read: the rest of the world) cared about them. True, the Catholic church was intolerant as hell, but they didn't really started to matter (regardless of the crusades) until Europe got big (which itself was a chance occurance based off of a number of unlikely circumstances as well as lucky timing).

As the modern world and its Western (inc. Europe) focus is really only 500ish years old, and much of that early stage was part of an interim sort of period... no, intolerance isn't necessarily a modern concept, but it wasn't dominantly practiced until the last five-ish centuries, which isn't that long if you think about it. When I mentioned that homophobia and disapproval of homosexuality was a recent concept, I meant recent like new-world recent. Back around the Greek/Spartan/(probably Roman, but haven't formally studied them) eras, it was way cool.

Sorry for sounding like I'm giving a lecture, but I wrote essays on the change from the tolerant old world to the intolerant new world AND the unlikely rise of Europe the backwater region to power recently, so the material's still fresh in my mind. Akigakak, if you really require evidence, I could provide some, but we're already pretty far off topic as-is.

Frankly, I think guy-guy and girl-girl relationships in DF are wicked. If one really wanted to complain about it... eh, they all have beards anyhow, what's the difference?

[Akigagak]

Yes, this is about homosexuality.

Why was your evidence based on how intolerant people were to Islam?

When I mentioned that homophobia and disapproval of homosexuality was a recent concept, I meant recent like new-world recent.

Have you seen the Bible? If that was written after the discovery of the West Indies then I'm the President of Spain.

[Footkerchief]

That isn't exactly hard.

Trying being clearer.

What he means is that intolerance was, until recently, so universal that everyone took it for granted.  There's a difference between engaging in intolerant behavior, which was obviously common, and taking an interest in the concept of intolerance.

[Retro]

I don't mean intolerant 'to' Islam. I mean intolerance in general, and specifically religiously - as in, 700-1300 AD (or so, though prior to that I'm a bit fuzzy) Muslims were not intolerant, at least about most things. They were significantly friendlier than the Catholic church, at least.

And again, Europe was not a big deal prior to the Western world being discovered. Christianity (and I'll include the bible in this) was not really a big deal outside of its tiny sphere of influence - again, Europe was not a power or even some sort of sub-power in the old world, which consists of basically everything pre-1400s. My point is that Christianity didn't really have much strength compared to Islam, which was waaay more widespread and influential, and to the point - tolerant of others.

I don't really feel like debating this more; I was just trying to make a point that homosexuality was totally cool back in the day and that the modern views that 'gays r bad' hasn't always been the standard way of thinking. That being said, I'd really like to push the discussion back to gay dwarves, which I don't see any problem with in Toady's fantasy setting.

[Dragooble]

[darkflagrance]

I'm pretty sure the OP just misread the title "Duke Consort" for Duke's Consort."

Otherwise, homosexuality is easily achieved via Dwarf Companion, because if you change the gender of a dwarf, he/she retains his/her original sexual preferences.