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Author Topic: Dwarf Digging Pattern  (Read 3326 times)

TotalDewage

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Dwarf Digging Pattern
« on: December 10, 2009, 08:55:50 pm »

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« Last Edit: March 14, 2015, 04:55:47 pm by TotalDewage »
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Draco18s

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Re: Dwarf Digging Pattern
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2009, 06:26:26 am »

Definable pattern exists:

Dig from West side first, then East, North, South, NW, SW, NE, SE.
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profit

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Re: Dwarf Digging Pattern
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2009, 07:31:24 am »

I think the random ant tunneling effect is really useful... it allows for more than one dwarf to mine without bumping into the others constantly and having them waste time walking around the other dwarves.

(if only we could get them to stop walking around a stone so they hit it from the west)

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TotalDewage

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Re: Dwarf Digging Pattern
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2009, 03:33:59 pm »

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« Last Edit: March 14, 2015, 04:55:29 pm by TotalDewage »
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fizmat

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Re: Dwarf Digging Pattern
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2009, 01:09:43 am »

Creating a sensible default pattern of digging that works in most cases is hard. That works always - impossible. The system would have to think for you and know what you want... Maybe just add designation "priority" or "tier" or "order". Designations with lower priority only get done after all the things with higher priority. + raises, - lowers priority when in designation menu. So you designate the first "stage" of digging, hit -, designate the second, etc. Maybe have it change color of designation tiles. So you designate the whole job in stages, then go manage something else without having to return and micromanage designations. If you have to dig some rooms for immigrants and the diggers are busy with the megaproject - designate the rooms with higher priority than any stage of the project and digging will start imediately. If there's no hurry - designate with lower priority and digging will start when the project is finished.

The only problem is sometimes you won't be able to designate the whole job in tiers, for example if there's a tile to be channeled with a tree on it. You can designate to chop, but until it's done can't designate to channel with lower priority. Or you need to channel a lake drain, then wait for it to drain, then dig into the bottom you still have to manage digging manually.
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TotalDewage

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Re: Dwarf Digging Pattern
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2009, 01:39:39 pm »

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« Last Edit: March 14, 2015, 04:55:05 pm by TotalDewage »
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Jadael

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Re: Dwarf Digging Pattern
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2009, 02:42:29 am »

I'd be happy with them simply choosing the nearest designation instead of the northwestern-most.
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orbcontrolled

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Re: Dwarf Digging Pattern
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2009, 08:39:07 am »

I'd be happy with them simply choosing the nearest designation instead of the northwestern-most.
Exactly. Forget all the priority stuff. I kind of like the ant tunneling, what I don't like is that instead of proceeding outward from a central point, they instead dig a narrow tunnel to the farthest most inconvenient part of the tunnel, and then proceed outward from there. After that, the stone haulers and miners have to crawl through the tiny, haphazard access tunnels, and the dwarves digging from the furthest corner inward ensures that I won't be able to start using the room until they are entirely done.

In fact, I think a lot of jobs in DF could benefit from a dwarf taking pathing distance into account. Bringing materials to a workshop particularly comes to mind.
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TotalDewage

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Re: Dwarf Digging Pattern
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2009, 01:13:37 pm »

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« Last Edit: March 14, 2015, 04:54:48 pm by TotalDewage »
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Draco18s

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Re: Dwarf Digging Pattern
« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2009, 08:06:00 pm »

I think we're talking about two different points here.

I'm more concerned about controlling which tile the dwarf prefers to stand on to dig an adjacent tile.

You're going to have to suck up and realize that that is a non-trivial problem to solve.
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profit

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Re: Dwarf Digging Pattern
« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2009, 09:03:43 pm »

I think we're talking about two different points here.

I'm more concerned about controlling which tile the dwarf prefers to stand on to dig an adjacent tile.

You're going to have to suck up and realize that that is a non-trivial problem to solve.

Actually this problem is trivial to solve.... Just have the dwarf stand INSIDE the tile he is working on...

"but the dwarf would be floating in mid air while building a flood tile"  -> OH NOES!

"But the dwarf would be inside the wall that he is mining" -> Anything but that!!!!!

"But the dwarf would be inside the wall after its constructed" -> Oh the humanity!!!!!

Ok, so it is not aesthetically pleasing and honestly probably not a very good one.. but it is a solution which was trivial for me to solve thereby disproving your postulate =)

*On a serious side note, constant path-finding would probably kill fps if it was implemented to determine which side of the stone to work on.

* if the idea was implemented, it could be abused unless a dwarf was forced to finish any job he started inside of a tile.. otherwise they could go though solid walls or skip across holes...  Not suggesting it really be implemented though...
« Last Edit: December 13, 2009, 09:09:22 pm by profit »
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The Architect

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Re: Dwarf Digging Pattern
« Reply #11 on: December 13, 2009, 09:09:15 pm »

I think a last-in, first-out technique like the one applied to constructions would be nice. But they're very different and entirely separate systems, so that is not going to happen.
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TotalDewage

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Re: Dwarf Digging Pattern
« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2009, 03:46:06 am »

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« Last Edit: March 14, 2015, 04:53:58 pm by TotalDewage »
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The Architect

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Re: Dwarf Digging Pattern
« Reply #13 on: December 14, 2009, 06:23:07 am »

I don't understand why my solution is non-trivial.  There's already code defining preferred standing locations: In order from most preferred to least preferred, dwarves prefer to stand on the tile to the: West > East > North > South > NW > SW > NE > SE of the tile being dug.

Since this exists, why not just make that ordering accessible to the player in game?  Thus if a problem can be foreseen with a certain direction/s, they can be moved to the end of the order manually.

This is actually an oversimplification. That generally describes their behavior, but they also decide what to dig based on the position within the square (map section), height, and what the relationship is to any tile they're already digging. I'm sure they don't decide the reference point within a square arbitrarily, but I don't know what the pattern is. It could be a smaller version of what you're describing.

The priorities might not be easy to interface, either. Without the source code we don't know that, so forgive me for pointing out a complete obscurity in the sentence before this one. I did feel it necessary to point out the the behavior isn't quite as predictable as what you have described.
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Draco18s

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Re: Dwarf Digging Pattern
« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2009, 04:21:37 pm »

"But the dwarf would be inside the wall that he is mining" -> Anything but that!!!!!

Designate tile for mining, dwarf stands in it.

Pause.

Undesignate the square, designate one farther inside the wall.

Unpause.

Dwarf steps onto the designated tile...

Pause...

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