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[LegoLord]

The Truth about Obama.

Oo, boy, can you say nutjob conspiracy?  Cause that's all I'm seeing there.  Mass media controlled by one organization?  Bullshit.  There are dozens of competing news organizations, none of which have significant dominance to make someone president at will.

[Virex]

The Truth about Obama.

Stuff like this makes me sad. There's nobody to be trusted from the higher ups.
Also, the memory hole. The USA is terribly drifting away from it's original ideologies and becomes the informative shithole Canada the UK Australia France Germany South Korea Japan Iceland the USSR is was. Congratulations.

Fixed

[Leafsnail]

In the Boston Globe online, the original story about a man who was arrested for placing a sticker in an airplane lavatory that said "9/11 was an Inside Job - prisonplanet.com", included a mention of Alex Jones and his website, www.prisonplanet.com, and a link to it. A few days later, the prisonplanet.com phrase in the sticker's quote was removed, and the link and mention of Alex Jones were deleted.

Oh my God.  A man who randomly vandalized a bathroom had his STICKER TAKEN DOWN!??!  ZOMG THE REPTILIANS ARE AT IT AGAIN

It goes on to claim that Wing Nut Daily is also on Obama's side (what?).  And then... they removed a boring 16 minute section of an interview for Fox News!!  And then something to do with Russia and South Ossetia, even though pretty much all newspapers told both sides of the story!  And a link to this video!

Urgh, this garbage is beginning to rot my brain.

[zchris13]

Okay.  People have way too much time on their hands.

[Vester]

fairly unrelated rant:
George W. Bush may have been ridiculed as an idiot, and in fact turned out to be impotent and rather useless, except for a shining moment when our country was under attack and any man in that position would have stepped up with bave words. But at least he had backbone and his story didn't change at every interview. I'd rather have a man with backbone than someone who just says whatever people want to hear. Hell, I guess I just hate politicians. But after Clinton, Gore, and Obama's examples, I dislike Democratic presidential candidates more than I hate my own two-faced Republican senator, and that's saying a lot.

* "Liberal", a misused and abused term, for instance: socialism is the farthest thing from liberal. Call it "progressive" if you want, but it's not even that if you know your history. It's actually regressive and restrictive, the opposites of progresive and liberal. Want to go there? Want to throw the word "fear" at anything you don't agree with to make the other person sound ignorant and timid? I'd prefer to skip the obviously cliche political lies of the "liberal" side just as I'd prefer to skip the same tactics when used by the "conservative" side.

For the record: I don't have money for the government to take. I'm a student. But when I move on to a profession, I expect to be rewarded for whatever work I do and have the right to do as I damn well please with what I earn. Of course I want to support the infrastructure that protects and serves the people as well. And of course I don't want other people to suffer. If I were actually afraid of any political or economic turmoil in the way some people are, what I would fear is the devastation wrought on societies trying to live with a socialistic economy. I like prosperity, personally. I don't see how turning our economy into a common socialistic wreck is going to help feed the poor; I think we would have a better chance of doing it with a healthy free market. Of course a free market must be tempered with morality, and that is what the government is supposed to step in and enforce. Including putting a stop to corrupt corporate practices and unions wringing $25/hour wages with benefits for assembly-line workers in American car factories.

Yes, but Bush squandered a rare moment of national unity. He used the post 9/11 period to solidify his power base, and then enter an unjust - read that as un-Christian - international war. With that he wasted every single bit of international goodwill his predecessor, blowjobs and all, had gained from everyone else.

Also: George W. Bush? A lot smarter - and a lot more cynical - than most people realize. That's a scary man.

Also, I'm going to take issue with your "christian moral values", because you brought up socialism. You realize that Jesus, along with Amos and a lot of the other prophets, were basically the Middle East's biggest Socialists?

[Jude]

Frankly, the man's politics scare me. First there are his very questionable moral standpoints, which change depending on who he's talking to. It's a politician's trait which is very strong with the Democratic Party. The Republican Party has its own problems, but we don't need to go there because Obama isn't in it. For the record, I don't like either. Anyway... as far as economics, he wants to socialize the country, and before someone cries "scared conservative!" let's not mix terms. Don't throw ignorant cliches or classifications at me, I'm an American citizen who believes in a free market with government regulation to keep it free. Don't jump on me if you don't know the difference between capitalism and free market. Unmitigated pursuit of profit is just as harmful as "big government" in a market. I also have a Christian "set of moral values", though I'd consider it much more than that. Some of the things our President supports clearly violate morality as I understand it, and combined with his socialistic approach to economics his policies are disturbing.

Of course he wants to "socialize" America. He doesn't want to turn it into outright socialism, but, as much of Europe demonstrates, capitalism tempered with socialist elements works far better than unchecked capitalism. I'm with him on that.

Also, what "questionable moral standpoints?"

The bottom line, quite literally in this case, is: what did the guy do to deserve a Nobel Peace Prize? All he's trying to do is flip America upside down, albeit in a way that he claims (read: can't trust any politician's motivations) will be good for us, the people.

That's not all he's trying to do; he's trying to repair America's relations and reputation with the rest of the world after the neocons ruined everything we're respected for. That's why he got the prize, although I (and also Obama, which he as much as said in his speech) think he shouldn't have gotten it.

Hopefully, in 7 years he'll have two terms behind him that make him actually worthy to win it. But now it's pretty dumb tbh that they gave it to him.

[LegoLord]

Hm.  I know this may sound silly, but maybe there should be different degrees of prize?  Where it's scaled to how much the person has done?

This would probably need some refining, though.

[Blacken]

Frankly, the man's politics scare me. First there are his very questionable moral standpoints, which change depending on who he's talking to. It's a politician's trait which is very strong with the Democratic Party. The Republican Party has its own problems, but we don't need to go there because Obama isn't in it. For the record, I don't like either. Anyway... as far as economics, he wants to socialize the country, and before someone cries "scared conservative!" let's not mix terms. Don't throw ignorant cliches or classifications at me, I'm an American citizen who believes in a free market with government regulation to keep it free. Don't jump on me if you don't know the difference between capitalism and free market. Unmitigated pursuit of profit is just as harmful as "big government" in a market. I also have a Christian "set of moral values", though I'd consider it much more than that. Some of the things our President supports clearly violate morality as I understand it, and combined with his socialistic approach to economics his policies are disturbing.

Of course he wants to "socialize" America. He doesn't want to turn it into outright socialism, but, as much of Europe demonstrates, capitalism tempered with socialist elements works far better than unchecked capitalism. I'm with him on that.

You have a very long road to hoe before you can make that claim out-of-hand. Something something only superpower in the world something something.

[Ampersand]

Aqizzar is obviously just being manipulated by Obama's mind control satellites. If only we could send him a tinfoil hat, he may yet be saved.

[Vester]

Unless his brain in his chin, so you'd need some sort of chin-sheath.

[zchris13]

We could just make a giant suit of tin armor.

[Jude]

Frankly, the man's politics scare me. First there are his very questionable moral standpoints, which change depending on who he's talking to. It's a politician's trait which is very strong with the Democratic Party. The Republican Party has its own problems, but we don't need to go there because Obama isn't in it. For the record, I don't like either. Anyway... as far as economics, he wants to socialize the country, and before someone cries "scared conservative!" let's not mix terms. Don't throw ignorant cliches or classifications at me, I'm an American citizen who believes in a free market with government regulation to keep it free. Don't jump on me if you don't know the difference between capitalism and free market. Unmitigated pursuit of profit is just as harmful as "big government" in a market. I also have a Christian "set of moral values", though I'd consider it much more than that. Some of the things our President supports clearly violate morality as I understand it, and combined with his socialistic approach to economics his policies are disturbing.

Of course he wants to "socialize" America. He doesn't want to turn it into outright socialism, but, as much of Europe demonstrates, capitalism tempered with socialist elements works far better than unchecked capitalism. I'm with him on that.

You have a very long road to hoe before you can make that claim out-of-hand. Something something only superpower in the world something something.

Huh?

We may be the only superpower, but our health care system is shit and we have way more crime and less literacy than most of western Europe, worse mass transit, worse agriculture...not that I really know what you're saying

[Blacken]

More crime? Depends on how you slice it. Britain, for example, is in the midst of a pretty ugly surge in crime--sure, they don't have guns, instead the rates of knife-related assaults went through the roof. Also note that we classify a number of victimless crimes as felonies--and that has nothing whatsoever to do with socialism.

Health care? Works fine if you have money. The United States remains the go-to place for experimental or expensive treatments, because that's where the doctors are. Is it as good for people who don't have money? It's not great, and sure, UHC tends to provide more benefits to the poor at great costs overall--there's a reason most medical R&D money comes from the United States, and that's because we are willing to pay for it; if the United States said "we are willing to pay only the highest rate of any other G8 country," their costs would explode too. I, for example, am very happy with our current system. Because I'm taking steps to ensure that a) I will have money, and b) I will have contingency plans to pay if I get ill. If I screw up? Oh well. Life isn't fair.

Literacy? The United States's literacy rate is approximately 99.0% according to UNESCO. The highest rate in Western Europe? Austria. With 99.0%. Come again? (Most of the countries that report higher are countries that are obviously cooking their books--I'm looking at you, Belarus.)

Worse mass transit? Are you seriously bringing this up as a point in favor of "socialized countries"? Have you noticed how big the United States is recently? While better mass transit would be nice, the United States is bigger than the entirety of Western Europe combined by far and is culturally predisposed to individual automobiles to the point where you won't get people to use that vaunted mass transit system.

Worse agriculture? When we need better agriculture, when we benefit from better agriculture, you just let me know, OK?





I grow very tired of the "Europeans are better at everything!1!1111" nonsense. Especially when it isn't really well-backed.

[kuro_suna]

The biggest problem I see with health care in the United States is that it already has socialized medicine, just not universal medicine. Medicare is a single payer system to cover people who would never be able to get insurance like the elderly or disabled. The problem is your spending as much as most nations do for universal health care on medicine for people who will never be employed while people who have to go to work every morning are told to suck it up, this seems like the worst possible situation since your workforce are the people you want healthy.

[Blacken]

The biggest problem I see with health care in the United States is that it already has socialized medicine, just not universal medicine. Medicare is a single payer system to cover people who would never be able to get insurance like the elderly or disabled. The problem is your spending as much as most nations do for universal health care on medicine for people who will never be employed while people who have to go to work every morning are told to suck it up, this seems like the worst possible situation since your workforce are the people you want healthy.

You're entirely right. Note that I did not say that socialized medicine was a net negative. It simply has different aims.

(Medicare is a system that has outlived its usefulness. It, and Social Security, were developed when people died within five to ten years after retiring. Not thirty.)