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[CobaltKobold]

Eh. Burned out for now. Also holidays.

Spoiler: a humbug on mafia (click to show/hide)

 I kind of realized that fun is contrary to effective play in Mafia.

Town has little reason to have fun with the town. One may, but it's likely to brand them scum = bad for town.
Scum have reason to have fun with the town, but if they're caught, they're dead. Or, they can't have fun until near-lynch, which requires...bad play!
Survivors have no reason to have fun with the town e'en worse than scum.
Lynchers are straightforward- only have reason to direct the town one way rather than screw with them.
Jesters can have fun, except if they have too much they AGAIN lose (as obvjester). but the odds are so low of being one...

[Neruz]

That's one of the reasons why i always get lynched when i start getting bored XD

[Org]

Hehehe

[dakarian]

Depends on what you've deemed as 'fun' though.

Assuming a traditional game, with standard rules and roles (ranging from BM to Paranormal)

The benefit to being 'town' is in detective work.  Folks that have fun here are the type that catching people in their mistakes.  Finding out that Mr. Perfect Town isn't as aggressive as he seems to be.  Throwing that one question at Ms. Clean that sends her into fits and stammers.  Pressuring someone until they CRACK.  Turning the tables on a bandwagon that's about to lynch you into the discovery of an entire scum pack.  Finding clues, mistakes, contradictions, that seperate town from scum.  That's the gain of being a town.

Those that enjoy being scum most enjoy the manipulations.  Seeing an entire pack of people, dedicated to locating you slide by your name as if you don't exist.  Sitting back while the messages and confusions you've set swallow a town whole.  Altering facts.  Abusing people's failures.  Seeing every plan fall together.  Watching the town 'hero' fall into your trap.  Leading the town to tearing apart their only hope for survival.  That is the gain of being mafia.

Now if you are looking for something else, you are probably looking for something non-standard.  Some people like being able to control and use game altering powers.  Those are the role heavy games, like KWN and BYOR.  Some like puzzles, trying to break down a system and 'hack' it to their advantage.  Bastard games are designed with that in mind.  Still others like to just completely mess around.  Odder games, like what KotM has turned into, form that, along with some BYORs with the right host.

Of course, the first question is: what sort of 'fun' are you after.

[CobaltKobold]

Those that enjoy being scum most enjoy the manipulations.

This would be the main thing I was referring to. I like screwing with heads.

Also, now that I'm not in any games where it's present, I like roleplaying, but lately people don't seem to wrap their heads around how to accomodate it and the game simultaneously, and unless they do...

[Vector]

Those that enjoy being scum most enjoy the manipulations.

This would be the main thing I was referring to. I like screwing with heads.

Also, now that I'm not in any games where it's present, I like roleplaying, but lately people don't seem to wrap their heads around how to accomodate it and the game simultaneously, and unless they do...

I think that people currently are under the delusion that it's part of the game.  If you tell people explicitly "roleplaying is fine, but it will really have no effects whatsoever" (and you're not running with a bastard mod), you might get better results.

[CobaltKobold]

Well, it makes the game more fun. Your definition would mean that roleplaying is not part of D&D. (This can, unfortunately, sometimes be true.)

Besides, a lack of causality one way does not imply a lack of causality the other way.

[webadict]

The problem with roleplaying is that you can hide behind it.

Though, yes, it is more "fun."

Also, I just rolled a natural 20.

[CobaltKobold]

Nah. If you're doing it right, your fluff and crunch are working together.

[dakarian]

The role play HAS to be a major factor.  It doesn't have to 'make changes' but it does have to be the 'main tool' to playing.

If you just plop in RP into a regular mafia game, the players will either have to roleplay OR scumhunt, since they can't do both.  KWN:DE is a perfect example of this. 

A RP based mafia game can be made, but the RP has to be fully set into the game: aka to win you must RP.  Perhaps I can try creating one. 

As far as the other matter: manipulating others, that's the role of being scum.  The trick is to manipulate the people without getting caught, which takes skill bit is very, very possible.  Note that in Lylo you are expected to do this more than any other time, though the methods may change. 

[CobaltKobold]

If you just plop in RP into a regular mafia game, the players will either have to roleplay OR scumhunt, since they can't do both.  KWN:DE is a perfect example of this. 

Counterexample: Paranormal 2

"It's true... the man is no stranger. He's lived across the street as long as I can remember." says the lanky fellow, his voice quivering nervously in such a crowd. "A-and I find I must agree with the gentleman over there, as we need to be as rational as possible. Random accusations and panic is going to lead to rash decisions, which gives them the advantage. We need to be careful to separate them, who clearly want our blood, and those who are merely concerned citizens."

An old man stands up, leaning on his cane. He speaks with a soft voice, "Does that reassure any of us? Of course not! Who knows how long they've been among us! Do you? Can you be sure of his innocence at all? I think not! We're all suspicious, and without knowing who is whom we'll never live to find out! I think you're a little suspicious, Solifuge!" he shouts, pointing a long, bony finger at Solifuge.

[dakarian]

Note:  The RP lasted from the RVS to about midway day 1.  That is the time when the town has to get serious and start scumhunting.  Once the scumhunting began, the RP faltered and eventually broke down.

When that RP is given a reason to stay for longer, the town finds that they continue to be unable to scumhunt.  The mentalities of doing RP and of doing a scumhunt are just too different to mix.  It's actually the same as how you can't scumhunt normally in a Bastard Mod and can't mod-guess the mechanics normally in a standard game.

It doesn't mean that you can't RP in a mafia game.  It just that it needs a game set up for it, just like how Puzzle-solving mentalities need a Bastard Mod setup to function.

[CobaltKobold]

SOUL REMAINING REPORTER EXTRA EXTRA (from a different para)

[Leafsnail]

The problem with roleplaying is that you can hide behind it.

Though, yes, it is more "fun."

Also, I just rolled a natural 20.

Yeah, I know you're looking at me.  Although it did show the dangers of paying too much attention to such roleplay.

And I suppose you could try running a mafia game in which you have to roleplay, but it would get rather difficult and confusing (plus, how would meta-analysis work ?).

As for fun, there is something uniquely challenging and fun about trying to fight people off and get your ideas through as town.

[Zai]

I like having having fun as everything. Being serious is for pansies.