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Early

2 (22.2%)

Mid

5 (55.6%)

Late

2 (22.2%)

Total Members Voted: 9

[Belac]

I would cheerfully have different conditions demonstrating board dominance--however, I would love to see you play and win on a small board (~100 spaces total) without using a large-population, high-resource fortress province at the center of your potential territory with good gem income.  One doesn't get many of those.

[EuchreJack]

That's a pretty good point, but the map you suggested only has 7 starting locations, thus we all know exactly where to attack on turn one for victory.  Seems a little too blunt strategically to me.

You'll be forcing me to play Himmon or something, as opposed to sneaky Man or Pangea, for example.

Also consider this: If all I need to do is capture 4 capitals for 3 turns, land civilizations never need to enter the water!  Why bother with that when you can capture the capitals of your land neigbors, leaving the toughest alone!

Have fun E. Albright!

Before I continue, I'd really like to hear from the other players.  If everyone else is in love with Bering and 4 capital 3 turns, I'll shut up and adapt.

[Il Palazzo]

Play without victory conditions. Once somebody realizes there's no way for him to win, he just surrenders.

[E. Albright]

I'd say play a map without preset starts, especially if we're doing something like the above-proposed VCs, which I'll confess I'm not overkeen on. If you're really set on capital-induced death, have you considered cumulative VPs? Set it to, say, 12? For 6 players, that'd give you a game between 24 and 144 turns (though it'd be quite unlikely to clear 72). Losing your capital is a blow, but not fatal by any means, and it gives clear warning for everyone who's at risk of losing to gang up on the leader if they're really dominating. Or go with 18 VP if 12 seems too low - that's 36 to 216 turns, and would still likely not clear half the max.

Still, even with this, it puts a massive emphasis on rushing (and commando raids in early summer, natch). I cannot put into words the extent of my loathing of blitz games. Honestly, I'd be happiest with no victory conditions. If it's plainly game over, those who are on the receiving end of a steamrolling can concede. Creating very structured, artificial victory conditions is just begging someone to game them to "win".

Hmm... looking over the maps, I'm seeing Hyborian, and (the exceedingly ugly) Lonely Mermaid ("less seas" version) as being Bering-sized without fixed starts. Pangaea, Random: Hellscape, Sha Bay, and 3Isles (Good or Lots of Water) are also close-ish in size. Yalun-To would do for a slightly smaller game if we had 3 people wanting water nations, or a closer-to-even sea-to-land balance between 4 terrestrials and 2 aquatics.

[Edit: I'm willing to switch to a water nation if we need another for balance. This presumes MA wins the vote, as it's on track to, obviously.]

[EuchreJack]

Actually, when I looked over maps to replace the Bering map, Pangea looked the best.  But I was afraid the water nations might not like how they are effectively barred from the interior until they reach land.  Land nations can really turtle against the water nations, making the center a tough nut to crack (unless, that center area is a warzone, and considering the lack of chokepoints, it is entirely likely).

Just out of curiousity, who is volunteering to play water nation?  I haven't committed to a nation yet (and won't until we get ironed out exactly what's happening) but it won't be a water nation.

[Il Palazzo]

Ok, I'd like to join this game, but only if I can play ME Pangea.

[EuchreJack]

Sounds good to me.

[Belac]

If we're in the ME and need another water nation, and R'lyeh is available, I will take it. 

As to victory conditions, I would be happy with anything that awards victory to the player who's clearly stronger than all others combined.  I think holding half the capitals does that; if others disagree, we can go with something else. 

[Belac]

Also, what are people's thoughts on vanilla vs CBM?  Specifically, on clams/fever fetishes/blood stones.

[Il Palazzo]

I'm against any set victory conditions. We play until everybody agrees that somebody won. At some point it's going to be obvious, without the game telling you so.

What's CBM again?

[Belac]

CBM is the Competitive Balance Mod.  It's a big mod that makes a variety of small changes (lowering the magic path requirements for a lot of low-level magic items, moving some of those from Con-4 to Con-2 and Con-0, beefing up lower-level spells, and in general expanding the midgame at the expense of the late game).  Its main changes are changing point cost of pretender physical forms (making some less expensive, some more, and improving the human ones a bit) and making gem-generating items (clam of pearls, fever fetish, blood stone) unique items.  The former is supposed to make more pretenders viable choices, the latter to simplify the late game by precluding the possibility of having large numbers of gem-generating items.

Here is a link: http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=43949

I could go either way--I've played around with the mod and a lot of its changes are interesting, I find gem-generating items annoying, and everyone likes stronger pretender builds.  But if folk like what they're used to, I could go for a regular game.

[Il Palazzo]

I'd go for the vanilla then.

[Belac]

I will be R'lyeh then, unless we are OK for underwater nations in which case I will be Abysia.

[Belac]

If we're going back to a 'know it when we see it' victory, would fixed capitals be OK?  I ask because Hellscape and Sha Bay are kind of ugly to me, Pangaea and Hyborian Age have the problem with water nations all being around the outside, and I hate being screwed due to a lousy start spot.  So if we're not doing Bering, then Yalun-To with 4 land and 3 sea might be nice.

Alternatively, what about the Europe map? 

Hmm... looking over the maps, I'm seeing Hyborian, and (the exceedingly ugly) Lonely Mermaid ("less seas" version) as being Bering-sized without fixed starts. Pangaea, Random: Hellscape, Sha Bay, and 3Isles (Good or Lots of Water) are also close-ish in size. Yalun-To would do for a slightly smaller game if we had 3 people wanting water nations, or a closer-to-even sea-to-land balance between 4 terrestrials and 2 aquatics.

[Edit: I'm willing to switch to a water nation if we need another for balance. This presumes MA wins the vote, as it's on track to, obviously.]

[Il Palazzo]

I'm ok with whichever map you pick.