Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[GlyphGryph]

All neutrals will be either Imp or Rebel allied, though how many of each and which is which would depend upon which roles end up being used. So you were right in that the Imperials "might" have a doc, but doc doesn't protect against a succesfull conversion, only a failed one. I was still planning original post, which is 6 starting imperials, 5 starting rebels, 1 starting cybrid.

Depending on how things go, I might add an additional imperial. Asside from the Officers as you call them (good name, btw, I will use that) they do have a number of "neutral roles" that are Imperials. Remember that the Rebel convert is a weak convert that pretty much rests on them being somehow able to convince others they are already winning.

I actually really like the loudspeaker idea. Can communicate with the thread, be fed information by the officers, but isn't as huge a target. I might end up doing that.

As far as nothing protecting the current incarnation against conversion, though - Why would you want to convert someone so obvious, when you could get him lynched the next day and get a real convert elsewhere? Admittedly, your loudspeaker idea is looking more and more attractive.

Anyways, onto to individual role things:

Persuader: I'm guessing that the Persuader learns if it succeeded or failed and the target doesn't know who asked.  Very curious as to how the 'voluntary conversion' will work.
Informant: balance check: if he inspects a cybrid, it'll show the OLD sympathies rather than letting it fail.  Otherwise, fail=cybrid=too strong against the cult.
Interrogator: similar to informant: cybrid target should show old sympathies.
Investigator: odd role cop.  like the Infiltrator catch he has.  Don't understand what he'll be able to do with the other roles checks.  I'm guessing you just wanted him to see one of each group, but that's not necessary.  Just having him check for, say, the Organizer and the Infiltrator is fine enough.

Okay, for interrogator/informant, I was not planning on a fail, it just doesnt show true allegiance. I'm not sure exactly what of three options I was considering would be best, though.
Either a)Cybrids choose which allegiance they show up as. b)Cybrids maintain old allegiance affiliations, and that shows up, though it can be changed via persuader it has no real affect on cybrid. Thats basically what you suggested. The first one would make it funny when the rebels realize "Yeah, seven rebels, we are def gonna... oh shit. We only recruited up to six. Thats not good." Which do you think would be better?

And yeah, the Overseer would only know the officers/actions.

I'll think some more about the technician.

And as for the cybrids, I've been wanting to keep this bit secret, but I've realized the advice I've gotten so far is just too good and this might not be.

That censored section represents the chance of a Cybrid Metagen//Traitor. He turns up cybrid to town inspections, but he is not actually Scum for game purposes. He wins if he's still alive when the game ends. He appears as one of the other roles when is announced, but doesn't actually have that role's power.

I'm thinking of giving the Infiltrator a stock of 4 conversions, one of each type Killer, Reprogrammer, Analyzer, and Metagen. This makes the reprogrammer a slightly more important role, in that he can turn a Metagen into a real scum.

if you think the idea is stupid, though, feel free to tell me. Basically, a big part of my approach in this game is "Every conversion attempt is a risk".

[GlyphGryph]

REVISED ROLES

Active Rebel Roles (Has quickchat, though only organizer starts in it):
Organizer - Has the ability to invite players to Rebel Quickchat. If a rebel uses an ability on them, he learns the identity of that rebel.
Saboteur- Has the ability to roleblock another players action.
Persuader - Has the ability to offer membership in the Rebellion to another player. He must PM the host with the desired target, and the offer (along with any argument) will be passed on. He does not know if he succeeds or fails.
Informant - Has the ability to investigate a person each night to determine their sympathies. Attempts against cybrids return untruths.
Fanatic - Has a single day or nightkill. Dies in the process when used, on account of it being a bomb.

Imperial Officer Roles:
Overseer - His loyalty to the Imperial Empire are known to all other players, but his identity isn't. Knows Imperial Officer roles, and results of their actions. May make public announcements as Overseer via the host, and play as a regular player.
Enforcer - May commit nightkills.
Interrogator - Has the ability to investigate a person each night to determine their sympathies. Attempts against cybrids return untruths.
Investigator - May search a players rooms and belongings, which will reveal the following roles, if applicable: Cybrid Infiltrator, Rebel Fanatic, Imperial Enforcer, Doctor.

Neutral Roles:
Guard - May simultaneously Protect/Roleblack another player during both day and night. This is a public ability, and must be declared. Works against kills AND conversions.
Technician - Day action, public action, may announce a public "Inspection" against another player to publicly reveal his current cybrid/human status.
Doctor - May target a player to protect. That player may not be night killed.
Weak - This player dies if the cybrid attempt to convert him.
Healthy - This player can survive through a single kill attempt, but not a lynch.
Miner - The standard townie.

Cybrid roles (has quickchat). A cybrid role will be "randomly" chosen upon a successful conversion:
Machinator//Infiltrator - The only one capable of creating more cybrids. He has a small stock of positronic brains (4) that were smuggled in, which means he must avoid the investigator.
Inquisitor//Analyzer - Capable of detecting a targets sympathies and abilities. Allegiance+Role.
Hunter//Killer - Has a night kill.
Redactor//Reprogrammer - Each day, may repogram another cybrid unit to randomly change their role. If this is attempted against a metagen, his existance is revealed and the unit is destroyed.
Metagen//Traitor - Does not count as scum. Wins if the game ends and he is still alive.

[dakarian]

On the Overseer.. The player as the overseer will have a tricky time.  Yes, there's doc protection but if you notice, the only killer is the fanatic and he'll want to be SURE before firing.  The big danger is the Cybrid conversion.  Converting the Overseer will give the Cybrids so much power over the Imperials it's insane.  Meanwhile, the Overseer knows more than most other people, which is what causes scum to have so many problems.

Result: Overseer will have to somehow not look knowledgeable in the main thread and not sound like 'themself' in the Loudspeaker.

(imagine reading, "The Overseer, protector of all, says 'Meh!'" and watch how fast I get converted, then lynched).

Note, I'm speaking about how the player will have to worry about the Overseer, not about what changes need to be done to the role. 


About Pursuader: OOo you put it in before I can suggest it: allow them to write an argument towards that player in the request.  Meanwhile, no knowledge if it worked?  SO EVIL!   Btw, this has the chance of making a whole new set of meta: What players are more likely to ditch the Imperials. 

About Investigations on Cybrigs: Old Allegence will work fine, including having the rebel convert 'affect' them.  Easier, and it makes sense storywise and game mechanics wise.


As for thee Cybrids: Allow yourself to control how many brains the original has (thus less for smaller games, more for larger) and I'm sold.  It turns the Cybrid from a true cult to a makeshift mafia group.  To get more control over the game, don't tell the Cybrids but actually have a list of what the brains will do. i.e.

4 Brains
1st Redactor
2nd Death
3rd Metagen
4th Hunter

To the cybrids it will seem random, but it means you can balance their power to suit the game properly, since you'll know just what roles the cybrids will put into the game...well, the Redactor may turn things more loopy since that IS a random effect but oh well.. nothing wrong with loopy IMO .

Btw, no need to hide the Metagen.  Hiding roles is more for bastard games and this shouldn't play like a Bastard. 

With those changes, yah.. I like the Cybrids. 

About the Neutrals.. I was right .  Generally, you'll want more Imperials than Rebels.  Even with the Power Roles, conversion is a BEAST and the town has two conversions to worry about each night.  Town needs numbers.  Traditional games have 20-25% scum. 

The game does look interesting.

[GlyphGryph]

Hah, your thinking on "random" is the same as mine, hence why put it in quotes when I described the brain thing. I plan on there being an order, I just don't plan on revealing it to the players.

Yeah, I definitely think I'm going to go with the loudspeaker thing, it just sounds like too much fun to ignore.

Also, I need to decide what order night actions should happen in. How do game usually handle that?

[dakarian]

The traditional order of events.

Roleblock - (Saboteur, Guard)
Protect - (Doctor)
Conversion (Organizer, Persuader, Machinator)
Investigation (Informant, Interrogator, Investigator, Inquisitor)
Death (Fanatic, Enforcer, Hunter)

Actions of the same type go at the same time (so an Enforcer and Hunter crossshooting would kill each other, and you can't block a roleblocker).

Since Guards block and protect, they go at the same time as other roleblockers. 

If an investigator checks someone being converted, they see the converted result, not the old.

Note that the Redactor doesn't 'fit' anywhere really.  I'd put it just after Roleblock and before Protect.  That way, a roleblocker can still stop the effect but a doctor won't save a Metagen from being destroyed.

[GlyphGryph]

I'm also thinking I'm going to give the overseer the ability to drop the hammer on a player with a majority of votes and end the day. Just because I think its an option the town should have.

Anyways, I've modified the OP to reflect the changes so far. WebAddict, CobaltKobold, is it looking better now, do you think?

[dakarian]

Too much power for him there.  Knowing the Officer roles + being able to communicate with them without being known is enough right there.

[GlyphGryph]

Hmm... I suppose so.

I'll probably just play Hammer in effect from the getgo anyways.

Okay, some new roles idea (though they would definitely not be in the original game, would give it a little bit of variation if its something I'd want to do again). Playing around with the loudspeaker mechanics, mostly.

Rebel:
Snowman (Hacker) - May speak over the loudspeaker as well.

Cybrid:
Cybrid Dissector//Implanter Has a single bomb they may implant in a target without the targets knowledge. They may detonate the bomb at any time. It goes off at the end of the day/night, and also kills anyone else who attempted to target the bombed player with a role ability. (Doctor, guard, interrogator, etc.)
Cybrid Demoralizer//Dissenter[/d] - May speak over the loudspeaker. (Only really useful in games with the hacker)

Imperials:
Record Keeper - While he lives, he always knows the number of Imperials, Rebels, and Cybrids in play.
Knight - May choose to guardkill a player, by which I mean any units that make an attempt
Agent - May choose to shadow a player. They see the target of special abilities, and players that target their target.

[dakarian]

Snowman:  Evil.  I like

Dissector:  Too powerful, given that the Cybrids are already very very powerful.  If the bomb is interesting, I'd give it to the Fanatic (thus they not only bomb themselves, but their target and anyone targetting them and anyone else). 

Demoralizer: nothing wrong with that.

Record Keeper: I'd make him a neutral actually.

Knight: Vengeful Guard?  Sure but don't allow him and the doc to show up in the same game. (though if Knight doesn't show the doc doesn't have to).  Also if the cybrid does the convert rather than the kill let it not trigger the knight (though if it causes a kill, it will)

Agent: First half is fine.. second half is too much power.

[GlyphGryph]

If I were to ever use the Dissector//Implanter, it would be in a game without a Hunter//Killer. May still be too overpowered though... It means the scum would only ever get one straight kill though.

Eh, I'll probably forget about additional roles for a while anyways, I've got a decent base set.

[dakarian]

Btw, how many players are you planning with this?

[GlyphGryph]

12-13, though I've got a smaller setup for nine players that might work as well.

Starting would be 6-7 imps, 5 rebs, and 1 cybrid with a stock of 4 brains (1 metagen).
For nine players, it would be 5 imps, 3 rebels, and 1 cybrid with a stock of 2 brains (possible metagen, depending on power balance).

Before I run this, I think I'd definitely want to run a more standard mafia game first - I wonder, would it be possible to break my teeth running BM8 with your guidance?

Also, I'd like to go over some useful interactions/pairings. Like if one role appears in a game, which other roles should/shouldnt. Any ideas on pairings like that other than the ones youve mentioned?

[CobaltKobold]

Aside from the -actually, the snowman appearing with no overseer would be hilarious.

...you know, it's going to be funny as hell when you get an O'erseer and one of the other loudspeakers, since it'll be all "DISREGARD OTHER MESSAGE"

[dakarian]

Overseer:  (important statement)

Hacker: "DISREGARD OTHER MESSAGE!"


Oh yes.. the lulz will be EPIC!

[CobaltKobold]

"NO DISREGARD THAT I AM SPARTACUS THE OVERSEER"