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[darius]

Although i am really grateful for all the raws (including those to come) and possibility to edit game I have a "choice of path" question: Will the raws ever have any "programming" ability.

The trend i am seeing now is raws as a way to input data. My idea/concept is that you could add new behaviour into the game. For example if now you can add  [ETHIC:VANDALISM:PUNISH_SERIOUS] with programming concept you could add [ETHIC:VANDALISM:PUNISH_JAIL] where in other file would be [TOKEN:PUNISH_JAIL] and some sort of script (e.g mark as non combatant, issue a job to move to cage or chains and leave it rot there). This way the possibilities would become truly endless (especially if you could use your "script tokens" anywhere). Other places where it could be used: offices, site selection, custom organs (glands that make poisons before death to make flesh uneatable) and so on.

[3]

The raws are going to be expanded to some degree. However, it appears unlikely to me that Toady will expand the raws to the degree that he is effectively making the game open-source (which is almost what you're suggesting); as Toady currently depends almost entirely on revenue from Dwarf, an open source game would only promote the chance of someone making a more popular version and thus ruin the potential of the project.

[darius]

Not opensource. This idea is different. Opensource'ing would mean revealing all the code. Totally different from what I wrote.

[Dasleah]

The answer is no.

[3]

Not opensource. This idea is different. Opensource'ing would mean revealing all the code. Totally different from what I wrote.

Not really. What you're suggesting is that the game should be more or less modifiable; this reaches an extreme point where the game may as well be open-source (as is becomes possible to modify the game in almost any means). Of course, I'm ignoring any potential changes to the actual engine... but there's only a fine line between modifying the game until it's no longer recognisible and modifying the engine itself.

[LegoLord]

I wouldn't call his idea an actual method of programming, but it does sound an awful lot like a game editing program (like RPG maker).

[Nexii Malthus]

The opensource argument is ridicolous, it is a logical fallacy. We are talking about modifying gameplay to a much deeper level, it is an inevitable goal if we ever want to go a step further from our current style of input, A=B C=D.

Modifying gameplay IS NOT the same as modifying the engine under the hood. These are two very different species.

[Deon]

I wouldn't call it an open-source. Guys, there's a lot of games which allow scripting, that's all what has been suggested, I.e. X3 allows you to define any behaviour for your ships, guns and everything like that, including pathfinding, trading, picking of targets et cetera.

However it looks like the thing you suggested, Darius, is not going to happen soon. The project is in very young state, so it's VERY unlikely that Toady will make any changes to moddability of game logics before he makes some major arc like caravan or interface arc.

P.S. Also, thank you very much to those who confused it with "opensource" statement, it fills me with joy and makes me think that our children are not doomed. At least not everyone understands the game/computer logic and terms, it means that not everyone of us are computer logic guru/zombie/knowing person and our world has some chance to survive .

[Nexii Malthus]

{redacted}
EDIT: Hmmm, nevermind. Same thing could be done with existing raw systems.


Scripting in the raws, how could we flesh this idea a bit further out? We need some good use-cases.

[Deon]

A game of robots comes to mind,  I don't remember it's name though.
The one where you were able to craft robots from parts and then define a logic for them: if nothing at view, go there; if notice an enemy, load a gun, move in the direction of enemy, shoot gun and charge some device etc..
This would make cool abilities to "program" squad. I.e. a partrol schedule: if you notice an enemy, 1) run back to barracks, disable patrol routes and designate the enemy's position as a station point for your squad; or 2) move to enemy, if notice creatures of smaller size, ignore; if there're creatures of bigger size, switch to attack them. Something like that.

It's not that advanced. The OP asked about much deeper level of AI coding, but it's an example nonetheless.

[darius]

However it looks like the thing you suggested, Darius, is not going to happen soon. The project is in very young state, so it's VERY unlikely that Toady will make any changes to moddability of game logics before he makes some major arc like caravan or interface arc.

I was asking this because 1) i thought of it for my own game 2) as far as i remember it was not in the the great dev list. (although more raws could also mean this).

As for that "game becomes as editable as opensource" argument i must say that this way Toady could implement script language as limited as he wants this way keeping stuff he wants be static in the engine unmodifiable

[Footkerchief]

As for that "game becomes as editable as opensource" argument i must say that this way Toady could implement script language as limited as he wants this way keeping stuff he wants be static in the engine unmodifiable

Yes, if it happens, he'll definitely do it that way.  I don't know why people came in here talking about open-source, given that there are tons of mostly-closed-source game engines that still expose Turing-complete scripting to everyone (e.g. the Unreal engine).  It's basically off topic.

Anyway, scripting has come up several times in various contexts, and Toady is aware of the idea (quotes below).  If it does happen, I don't anticipate that it'll be a replacement for the raws per se, as it generally makes sense to keep data and logic separate, although you did mention separate files in the OP, so I guess you understand that.

It's certainly not going to happen soon.  The game is still getting various core systems gutted and rebuilt, and scripting support would be mostly a waste of time until those settle down.

I also don't know anything about scripting, and it's tough for me to say whether time spent learning a scripting language, implementing scripts and supporting third party front-ends is better spent adding modestly to the interface myself.

I'm not sure the raws are a good place for spheres.  If every basic concept with wide-ranging code effects is put in the raws, DF would have to be rewritten in a scripting language to cope with it, or something along those lines.  There might be a place for custom spheres that activate bits of the pre-existing sphere code, but they'd be derivative of the spheres rather than using completely new scripts, which I don't know how to support.  Any rewrite along those lines would probably be too time-consuming at this point.