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[Time Kitten]

Nope, 10 long bridge still stays on it's level.

However, could you raise your gate and have it accessed by ramps? if the ramps are right against your outer wall, and your closing gate above that, you may not need to magmaproof it and will not give a place for things to stand.  You can see this lava distribution method in speargroove, though it only speeds up once I set the channel walls thicker in later ones.

And a row of pumps will be much faster than normal flowign through the same tunnel, you have my word.

[Heliman]

I don't get why you guys don't just set down Flood gates within the fortifications and set it up on a lever. They block off magma if they are activated before the magma touches it regardless of material and don't crush your dwarfs when turned on because they jam if anything is on it.

[Playbahnosh]

Nope, 10 long bridge still stays on it's level.

Aw, too bad. That would've been actually a usable idea.

However, could you raise your gate and have it accessed by ramps? if the ramps are right against your outer wall, and your closing gate above that, you may not need to magmaproof it and will not give a place for things to stand.

I don't really understand what you just said.

And a row of pumps will be much faster than normal flowign through the same tunnel, you have my word.

I believe you! I just don't think the pumping would start soon enough, and if enough dwarfs show up to pump, or if not that, I'll need some pretty elaborate axles and machines. The actual question was not how to flood the neighborhood, I got that covered, I just need the fort protected.

I don't get why you guys don't just set down Flood gates within the fortifications and set it up on a lever. They block off magma if they are activated before the magma touches it regardless of material and don't crush your dwarfs when turned on because they jam if anything is on it.

If you mean "within" like on the inside of the fort, we discussed it a few posts back. Sure, the floodgates doesn't squash the dwarf when standing on it, but doesn't close either, and the magma comes rushing in. That's the problem.

[Time Kitten]

                                       Gate
Level of lava flooding ~~~ /████\

provides a simple protection here, if you don't have magma safe items for your gate at least.

[Reese]

I believe you! I just don't think the pumping would start soon enough, and if enough dwarfs show up to pump, or if not that, I'll need some pretty elaborate axles and machines. The actual question was not how to flood the neighborhood, I got that covered, I just need the fort protected.

in order for pumps to be fast (as was illustrated with the reservoir many Z-levels above the pump) the pump will not be safe for a pumper, only for powered pumping... well, you could make a short U bend since magma won't rise up a hole without a pump behind it...

[Playbahnosh]

                                       Gate
Level of lava flooding ~~~ /████\

provides a simple protection here, if you don't have magma safe items for your gate at least.

The drawbridge essentially doubles as a gate, and as I learned earlier, raised bridges behave like solid walls when it comes to lava, so they are magma-proof no matter what they're made of.

But, sure, I could just raise the whole fort one z-level, that would provide some protection from the flooding, but then the line-of-sight would be lost. I plan on building siege engines on the ground floor of the towers to pick off bigger beasts or waves of enemies on the other side of the moat, and those need a straight line-of-sight to the enemy, so if I raise the walls, those will no longer function.

Well, it seems like covering the fortifications is not an option just yet. I can cover the ones on the ground floor with 10 wide and 1 long bridges, but somehow it seems there is no way of magma-proofing the upper levels... Well, I still hope someone has an idea...

in order for pumps to be fast (as was illustrated with the reservoir many Z-levels above the pump) the pump will not be safe for a pumper, only for powered pumping... well, you could make a short U bend since magma won't rise up a hole without a pump behind it...

So you are saying, that without a pump, the magma would never reach the second floor?

[Talith]

you said your magma delivery system was basically just a channel leading from the magma pipe, if i understood correctly.  Without seeing a screenshot of your design, i would think the chances of the magma ever going over a single z level is low.  Also, I am fairly certain, that without the use of pumps, magma has no pressure at all.  I would like to see a screenshot of your fort at this point just to see for my own curiosity.

[Reese]

in order for pumps to be fast (as was illustrated with the reservoir many Z-levels above the pump) the pump will not be safe for a pumper, only for powered pumping... well, you could make a short U bend since magma won't rise up a hole without a pump behind it...

So you are saying, that without a pump, the magma would never reach the second floor?

ah... not exactly.

there are a few pages on flud dynamics, but what it boils down to(ha!) is that magma can only mode sideways and down, while water will move sideways, down, and UP under the proper conditions, (and pumps can cause magma to go up as well)


█ ████ █
█ ████ █
█ ████ █
█ ████ █
█      █
████████


in the above, if you allow water to pour in the right side, it will rise up the left side
if you allow magma to pour in the right side, it will fill the bottom level, but it will not rise up the left side

█~████~█
█~████~█
█~████~█
█~████~█
█~~~~~~█
████████


█ ████░█
█ ████░█
█ ████░█
█ ████░█
█░░░░░░█
████████


so a dwarf pumping from a pump set up like so:


  █ ████░█
  █ ████░█
  █ ████░█
░%% ████░█
░██░░░░░░█
██████████

would be perfectly safe from magma, but would be drowned by water.

[Lalandrathon]

Note perfectly safe might be misleading. I've had dwarves catch on fire from pumping magma without direct contact due to what must have been the ambient temperature.

[Playbahnosh]

you said your magma delivery system was basically just a channel leading from the magma pipe, if i understood correctly.  Without seeing a screenshot of your design, i would think the chances of the magma ever going over a single z level is low.  Also, I am fairly certain, that without the use of pumps, magma has no pressure at all.  I would like to see a screenshot of your fort at this point just to see for my own curiosity.

It's not made yet, as I said in the first post, it's only a design. I've built several fortresses with topside forts like on my design, but I never used the magma BBQ up until now. I was merely looking for ways to protect it from lava damage before I build it for real.

there are a few pages on flud dynamics, but what it boils down to(ha!) is that magma can only mode sideways and down, while water will move sideways, down, and UP under the proper conditions, (and pumps can cause magma to go up as well)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

█ ████ █
█ ████ █
█ ████ █
█ ████ █
█      █
████████


in the above, if you allow water to pour in the right side, it will rise up the left side
if you allow magma to pour in the right side, it will fill the bottom level, but it will not rise up the left side

█~████~█
█~████~█
█~████~█
█~████~█
█~~~~~~█
████████


█ ████░█
█ ████░█
█ ████░█
█ ████░█
█░░░░░░█
████████


so a dwarf pumping from a pump set up like so:


  █ ████░█
  █ ████░█
  █ ████░█
░%% ████░█
░██░░░░░░█
██████████

would be perfectly safe from magma, but would be drowned by water.

Note perfectly safe might be misleading. I've had dwarves catch on fire from pumping magma without direct contact due to what must have been the ambient temperature.

Thanks for the heads-up, I read everything there is about magma and fluids on the wiki, and it seems, magma does not transmit pressure. So, no matter from how high I drop the lava, it will never reach the second floor unless pumped, so, in theory, I only need to protect the ground level fortifications from magma. That can be managed by the 10 wide 1 long drawbridges, that won't even require the extension of the moat. Awesome!

[Firnagzen]

The wiki page is bad. Read this. Far more concise, accurate, and easier to understand.

[Playbahnosh]

The wiki page is bad. Read this. Far more concise, accurate, and easier to understand.

I learned almost everything I know about playing df from the wiki, and it served me good so far. If the wiki is bad or outdated, you should consider updating or correcting entries you know are bad. I know there are a few inconsistencies there myself, but I'm a beginner, I won't know any better.

Also, it's easier to find information there, categorized and linked, than to mine (ha!) it out of the forum. There are nice tutorials and clarification here, but it's a nightmare to find them unless someone points me towards a certain one, like now. You should really consider updating the wiki with this stuff, so it'll be easier to find for beginners like me.

[Time Kitten]

Just don't use wood for your magma pumps, those dwarves probably caught fire because of the components of the pump catching fire.

[loser]

I heard somewhere that floodgates could be built to hang in the air, as long as there was something next to them.  The way of it was to build constructed walls, build the floodgates on top of those walls, then deconstruct the walls.

In that way, you could have unobstructed range from the fortifications, while still having magma-protection.

That might be a lot of floodgates, of course.  And that might not be accurate information, either.

By the way, that page that was linked is an excellent guide to 'pressure' in DF.  It should be in the wiki. 

[Playbahnosh]

I heard somewhere that floodgates could be built to hang in the air, as long as there was something next to them.  The way of it was to build constructed walls, build the floodgates on top of those walls, then deconstruct the walls.

In that way, you could have unobstructed range from the fortifications, while still having magma-protection.

That might be a lot of floodgates, of course.  And that might not be accurate information, either.

Waaaait a second... Dude, you are awesome!! I had an idea: I don't even need them to hang in the air! Lemme explain: I heard somewhere, that floodgates, when opened, are essentially "not there" ie. not obstructing the view. Since I can build floodgates at the lower levels also, I don't need them to hang in the air, they can rest on each other

Spoiler: like so... (click to show/hide)

(side view)
   ____
   ___╬X
fort__╬X<-floodgates
   ___╬X   v-moat
▓▓▓▓▓▓▓≈≈≈≈

Sure, I'll need a fuckload of floodgates and mechanisms to link them up to one single lever, but it could work! At least I really think so...

By the way, that page that was linked is an excellent guide to 'pressure' in DF.  It should be in the wiki. 

Word.