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[Lord Dakoth]

Also, Dakoth, the gospels do contradict each other. Any Christian scholar who has studied them will tell you this. You can't rationalize yourself away from facts. What it MEANS that they contradict each other is up to you, but it's an undeniable fact

I sure don't see you mentioning any specific contradictions. Citing something as fact with no reference whatsoever does not make it true.

[kuro_suna]

Technically, Christianity is also about socialism.

EDIT: No, really, it is. I don't know why socialism is such a dirty word in US politics, but there you go.

conservapedia is working on fixing that

[LegoLord]

@Lord Dakoth: No, I believe he's saying that Jesus was a hippie; All that "we are all God's children" peace and love unto everyone, fighting those in power who are corrupt, helping the sick and the poor, golden rule 'treat everyone as you want to be treated' kumbaya bullshit

Actually, no, hippies were all "drop everything and just have fun chillin'," more or less.  They just used most of those slogans as justification, when what they were doing can't really achieve those goals.  Those goals aren't "bullshit," it's the way the hippies went about them that were "bullshit."  JFK had those goals.  MLK, Jr. had those goals.  There have been hundreds of people with similar goals that have gone about trying to bring them to fruition in a number of different ways.  They've described those goals in many different ways, most of which being less stupid than you try to make them sound.

Peace is about support.  If everyone was in support of ending conflict worldwide, there wouldn't be any.  The more people are opposed to a conflict that are involved in it, the less staying power the conflict has.

[Vester]

Also, Dakoth, the gospels do contradict each other. Any Christian scholar who has studied them will tell you this. You can't rationalize yourself away from facts. What it MEANS that they contradict each other is up to you, but it's an undeniable fact

I sure don't see you mentioning any specific contradictions. Citing something as fact with no reference whatsoever does not make it true.

Blacken already cited specific instances, though. And referred to me as a "he". Dammit.

Yeah, Lewis Black was right

The christian god became a lot nicer after having a son, because the god of the New Testament was generally benevolent and forgiving, while the god of the Old Testament was a serious asshole. I had to read both for classes, multiple translations and interpretations too.

At least until you get to Revelations.

[G-Flex]

Revelation is the weirdass black sheep book of the New Testament, with the seven-headed beasts and the swords coming out of Jesus's mouth and stuff. It's WEIRD.

[Chutney]

the swords coming out of Jesus's mouth and stuff. It's WEIRD.

O...orichamaru???
I'd like links or quotations to this part of the Revelations please introduce me to this wonderful bit of literature.

[KaelGotDwarves]

Actually, no, hippies were all "drop everything and just have fun chillin'," more or less.  They just used most of those slogans as justification, when what they were doing can't really achieve those goals.  Those goals aren't "bullshit," it's the way the hippies went about them that were "bullshit."  JFK had those goals.  MLK, Jr. had those goals.  There have been hundreds of people with similar goals that have gone about trying to bring them to fruition in a number of different ways.  They've described those goals in many different ways, most of which being less stupid than you try to make them sound.

Peace is about support.  If everyone was in support of ending conflict worldwide, there wouldn't be any.  The more people are opposed to a conflict that are involved in it, the less staying power the conflict has.

You can't really generalize like that, there are plenty of hippies who are really adamant about their beliefs, and there are others who are like Liberal Crime Squad.

Trust me on that, I live near San Fran

[Vester]

the swords coming out of Jesus's mouth and stuff. It's WEIRD.

O...orichamaru???
I'd like links or quotations to this part of the Revelations please introduce me to this wonderful bit of literature.

"Weird" isn't the half of it. Most bible scholars believe that Saint John the Divine was on shrooms when he wrote it.

Here ya go Chutney.

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Bible_(King_James)/Revelation

Sword-Jesus first appears in Revelation 1:12-16 (chapter 1, verse 12 to 16).

[Jude]

@Lord Dakoth: No, I believe he's saying that Jesus was a hippie; All that "we are all God's children" peace and love unto everyone, fighting those in power who are corrupt, helping the sick and the poor, golden rule 'treat everyone as you want to be treated' kumbaya bullshit

That is EXACTLY what Jesus was about. Any other reading of the gospels require all kinds of improbable workarounds and rationalizations.

He was a communist (as in community lifestyle, not USSR style), Mother Theresa, ascetic and anarchist all rolled into one. Read the gospels people. If at all possible, read them as someone would who wasn't familiar with them and didn't want to use Jesus to justify their patriotism or extravagant lifestyle, and see what's actually going on.

Of course, this doesn't apply to John, another major difference between John and the other gospels. The author of John was more concered with spiritual warfare and stuff.

I sure don't see you mentioning any specific contradictions. Citing something as fact with no reference whatsoever does not make it true.

Alright, now you're salty

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contradictions_in_the_Gospels#Consistency_between_the_Gospels

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synoptic_gospels#Differences_from_the_Gospel_of_John

Btw, on Revelation: It's an allegory for the situation of Christians at the time it was written (late first century AD). The beasts and shit refer to various world powers; Babylon is Rome. The apocalypse it talks about refers to what was expected to happen within the writer's lifetime.

[Vester]

Furthermore: Christianity by nature must be Socialist. We can't act any other way.

I does read de gospels.

I think the author of John (let's call him... "John"...) tried to delve into metaphysical concerns, which was the exact opposite of Mark's writings. That's why he established The Son of God (at the beginning of his gospel) as having existed before the beginning, and so on.

John is as much the black sheep of the four canonical gospels as Revelation is the black sheep of the New Testament.

(also, what's salty? Hehehe.)

[Jude]

Salty is black slang (probably out of date, but people still understand it if you say it) that refers to the way somebody looks dumb when they are insistent that they're right about something and then are proved wrong

[LegoLord]

Where are you even getting the anarchist thing?  The only thing I can think of is when they go to the temple and Jesus gets mad because it's being used as a market place.  And that's more like him telling people off for being disrespectful than being an anarchist.

Granted it's been awhile since I've looked at that excerpt in any way shape or form.

[Vester]

Well, he does say "I came not to abolish the law but to fulfill it", which certainly doesn't look anarchical at all.

He wasn't so much an anarchist as he was anti-establishment: specifically, against an establishment that oppresses and represses, and such. Which was the situation the people were under at the time.

[Vester]

In that vein: are ignoramouses, like, dumb mice?

Backing off now.

[Gorjo MacGrymm]

[toe-edit: flaming removed]

PS:  The gospels are different because they were written by different people, with differing viewpoints and experiences, each trying to send what they considered the most important message in the world to a specific audience.  Greeks, Romans, Egyptians etc.  Each had cultural nuances that are reflected in the writings of the authors of the gospels who were preaching there.  What are really interesting are the gospels not incuded in the New Testament.  Thomas' gospel was rather poorly viewed by Paul and John, who actively preached against his teachings about "secret knowledge" and "escaping the flesh", or Gnosticism.  John's gospel is the most interesting in many ways because of the lack of many common similarities to Mark, Luke, and Matthew, the "Q" gospels.  John was quite militant, called the "son of thunder".  If he indeed wrote revelations, its no surprise about its contents.  Revelations is a touchy issue with many believers, not just theologians, due to the vast differences between it and the rest of the New Testament and its vague prophecies of doom.  I say vague, because it is too easy to read into the prophecy when it will take place, or that it is now taking place.  The suffering it describes is not vague at all.


none of this has anyting to do with its influence in politics in the US

[toe-edit: flaming removed]