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[ductape]

Another thread got me salivating and my desktop is about 6 years old. Time to do this thing so lets get me some help deciding. I built my last computer back in the day of PCI and graphics cards were more simple.

I am hoping to keep this under $500

Here is the barebones I am considering for $299:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=5205425&CatId=333

This leaves me about $200 for a graphics card, but it is so confusing! Experts help me out from this list:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/Category/category_tlc.asp?CatId=28&name=Video-Cards&cm_sp=LN-_-cat_28-_-CV

Would be cool to spend about $150-ish on something that should run most things fairly well.

Things to know about me:

• Dont care for the super high-end graphics, would be nice to see but I am not ready to pay for it.
• I like strategy games over FPS games.
• I just want to be able to play a good cross-section of new titles.
• Gaming is not my highest priority, 3d modeling in SketchUP, VectorWorks and other design software I use is more important to me.

[Tilla]

The latest in graphics are probably the Radeon 5000 series. a 5770 would do you well, I think it falls in the price range. Like so: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102864

[Sean Mirrsen]

If you don't care about the Really High End, then from that list, a GF9800 is your best bet for 99$. If you want better, I'd suggest a GF 240GT/250GT - well within the price range and quite good. I have a dislike for Radeons, though not based on personal experience, so feel free to choose a Radeon if you wish.

[ductape]

The barebones kit i have up there comes with a 300W power supply, is this adequate for these cards?

I am looking at the GF GT 240 pretty seriously: http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=5507336&Sku=P450-0242

[Darkone]

Starting with the barebones: For $120, that's almost entry level Phenom II, and is more than an Athlon II Quad-core, which are both excellent, and will give you much better performance in well-threaded stuff. The RAM is 667mhz, and only 2 gig, which is terrible, specially for $50. The PSU will not likely handle a graphics card.

Starting out, you should decide on if you want a dual core, or a triple/quad. The Athlon II 620x4 is only about $99, while the x3 version is only about $75. RAM is currently very expensive, at roughly $40 per 2gb, so it would be a good idea to decide on whether you want 4 gigs now, or 2 now, and 2 later. The case can be changed off for a better, slightly cheaper one, that also happens to be a lan party case, so it's lighter as well as having good airflow for its size.

Here's an example build, but definitely open to some ideas. Not entirely sure on if the 8pin -> 6pin adapter is needed, for instance. It has 2 gigs, upgradeable to more later. The 4860 is a cheap, powerful card as well.

http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=16805867

edit: IF you're set on a Nvidia card, the 250GT/ 9800 GTX+ is a good, solid card. As for the PSU, the 300 will not likely support any mid-range card unless it's a high quality  branded one, which it's probably not. The build I posted above I haven't checked the little details, but looks to work perfectly fine together. When RAM prices drop bad down, you can u that to a 2x2GB kit, which would be nice for modelling/design as well as gaming.

edit2:Hah, forgot to link....

[KaelGotDwarves]

I wouldn't put $500 as high/upper range...

But you can make an excellent pc for that price.

My recomendation is go i5 in that price range, or phenom II, sales and such can make a really cheap one, especially combo deals on newegg. You can get a much better power supply too.

PLEASE do yourself a favor and get ati right now, the price per performance ratio isn't even close on the nvidia platforms right now. For the record 4850 > 9800 and on a sale you can get 4850 for less than $100. 5770 is $200 (5850 and 5870 out of your budget) and under $200 there is the 4890 which plays all current games on max except for like... arma2 and crysis.

Edit: i'd go on newegg and show you sample builds like I did in the other thread but I'm posting from my phone . I'll do it later

Also dude above me, ram is dirt cheap, you can get from frys or newegg 4 gb for $40 of non-triplechannel DDR2

[Darkone]

I wouldn't put $500 as high/upper range...

But you can make an excellent pc for that price.

My recomendation is go i5 in that price range, or phenom II, sales and such can make a really cheap one, especially combo deals on newegg. You can get a much better power supply too.

PLEASE do yourself a favor and get ati right now, the price per performance ratio isn't even close on the nvidia platforms right now. For the record 4850 > 9800 and on a sale you can get 4850 for less than $100. 5770 is $200 (5850 and 5870 out of your budget) and under $200 there is the 4890 which plays all current games on max except for like... arma2 and crysis.

About right on the hardware. The 5770 is about the same as the 4870/90, and is slower, but has DX11 support, and uses less power. A 4830 can beat the 9800 GTX+, specially so if overclocked. Phenom IIs are great, and AMD tends to have cheaper boards. But the Athlon II quad is only $99 and is typically only about 5.5% slower per clock, but this varies based on task.

Athlon II vs Phenom II
$100 CPU comparison

[ductape]

Defining Upper-MidRange:

Code: [Select]

                            Upper MidRange   
                                   | 
<>---------------<>----------------x-<>-----------------<>
    Low Range           Mid Range         High Range



BTW, thanks so far guys! this is awesome!

[Jay]

I just built a high-end computer myself for just under $1000.
I wouldn't define a $500 budget (especially not pre-built, even if it's just mobo/CPU - you're still probably paying close to double the cost of the components -- you're definitely paying over double if you're buying a "plug and play" computer, but that's not exactly the case here) as upper middle-range, even now.  I have to say that that processor is closer to lower middle-range at this time.
My scale, given the huge advances in processing recently..
High-end = i7
Upper mid-range = i5/Core 2 Quad
Mid-range = E8000+
Lower mid-range = E6000+
Low-range = Anything lower

[Asehujiko]

Is there any significant difference between the 8800/9800 and the 210/220? They look suspiciously like they're rebranded spare parts.

[KaelGotDwarves]

Is there any significant difference between the 8800/9800 and the 210/220? They look suspiciously like they're rebranded spare parts.

Yeah, uhhhh about that.

Nvidia's current lineup is ALL rebranded parts and doubling up old hardware rather than new hardware. (Ati's 5000 series is completely new architecture from 4000, XX90 is hardware overclocked XX70, X2s are double chips on one card) 9800 is pretty much 8800 which is pretty much the new 250. The nvidia XX5 cards are dual gpu solutions. If you insist on nvidia, wait for the 300 series and hope they do something different. Ati's drivers are also better since amd acquired them than their horrific past.

That's why I can't really recommend anything nvidia at all at the moment. Don't get me wrong, gtx 295 is an amazing piece of hardware, it's also expensive as hell.

My current personal highend is i7 920 and 4850 X2, going to swap out the 4850 X2 for 5870(50/90?) when price drops.

I also run a home server with core2duo 8500 that I used to play df on   otherwise I would have opted for phenom. Intel has some shady business practices I don't know how long I'll be buying from them.

Also, motherboard is your most important component besides PSU(get corsair-some are rebranded seasonics! Or pc power & cooling). My personal recommendation for motherboard is something by gigabyte or asus.

[Jay]

Yeah, uhhhh about that.

Yeah, uh, about that.

The only aTi card on the market that beats a comparably-clocked NVIDIA is the highest-end card available.
Not to mention CUDA and PhysX for NVIDIA users.
You're blacklisting both of the companies that currently have the more powerful hardware in most of the price ranges in that post.
Are you sure about what you're saying?

[KaelGotDwarves]

The only aTi card on the market that beats a comparably-clocked NVIDIA is the highest-end card available.

Are you sure about what you're saying?

Why would you compare clock to clock? It's completely different architecture. For me as a consumer, the important thing is performance for the dollar. And in that category, currently, ATI crushes nvidia hands down. It's like they aren't even trying with all the rebranding and are charging a premium as long as people will buy

But if you want to talk pure power, you have to compare multiple GPU setups now on cards, or single GPU to single GPU, or single card to single card. Right now ATI has the lead in both those catagories.

"On average the Radeon HD 5970 was 53% faster than the GeForce GTX 295 at 2560x1600. Even removing the top three tests where the Radeon led with the biggest margins (BattleForge, Enemy Territory and Street Fighter IV), the HD 5970 still ended up some 34% faster than the GTX 295."
~Techspot

"After a Radeon HD 5870 launch that saw ATI’s fastest single-GPU board generally outperform Nvidia’s fastest single-GPU board, a Radeon HD 5850 debut that saw the Cypress GPU turned into a more accessible solution, and a simultaneous Radeon HD 5770/5750 introduction adding even more reason for mainstream buyers to upgrade, the company has to be feeling pretty good about the past two months. Yes, ATI’s new flagship is the fastest discrete card in the world. "
~Tom's hardware

"There are two things that become very clear when looking at our data for the 5970

1. It’s hands down the fastest single card on the market
2. It’s so fast that it’s wasted on a single monitor"
~Anandtech

Yeah, I'm pretty sure about what I'm saying. I'm not a fanboy, I'm just a guy interested in powerful tech. I'm hoping for some great competition when nvidia's 300 series comes out.

And you say I'm blacklist intel.

No, in fact I suggested intel. I USE intel in most of my owned computers... I think my house has around 8 intel chips but only 3 AMD total from over the years.

I merely mentioned that I don't like intel's business practices, which I don't. If they didn't make the obviously superior product (i7 920 I got for $200 and then overclocked clock speed higher than their extreme $1000 chip) I would be more inclined to go AMD over intel. Intel has a habit of kickbacks to vendors, squeezing out their competition like walmart and microsoft does through monopolies. As a consumer i'm allowed to be annoyed about that because it prevents other companies from even entering the field and giving us more options.

I want competition, I don't want any company to "win". Competition is good for us as the consumer. However, it's bad for us as the consumer when companies employ backroom tactics or try to rip us off.

That's why I can't recommend nvidia for the obvious rebranding and price gouging and have reservations about intel over their "upgrades" being gimped down processors aimed at curbing overclocking. derp.

I'm looking at newegg now and will suggest a few options in a bit.

EDIT: Wow, didn't realize ati 4670s run on 300w power supplies.

[KaelGotDwarves]

Here's the basic. It assumes you have basic things like access to operating systems, mouse, keyboard, speakers, monitor already.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

As you can see, I made a shit ton of cuts, but got it quite a ways under $500. If you invest slightly over $500, things get exponentially better so you don't have to keep upgrading later(better CPU, graphics card, PSU). You might notice lack of a power supply on there. It's from a respectable company (not great, but not Rosewill or Foxconn LOL) that comes with the case.

Naturally, you should not buy all the parts at once but rather buy on sales, this will make your computer much better for cheaper. You can get RAM cheaper and video cards for sure by just waiting around and constantly checking newegg and sites like slickdeals.net. For example, currently "Newegg has OCZ StealthXStream 700W Active PFC Power Supply for $40 after a $30 mail-in rebate and a coupon code EMCMNLP44. Shipping is free. Next lowest on Google Products from a reliable seller is $60 after a $20 MIR shipped (Amazon). Thank you proro1974."

What particularly amuses me is this review of the video card on newegg.

"This card will do 3D rendering while still being able to play Crysis on High with 1280 x 1024. I pushed in on a second Monitor (1920x1080p with my 37" Plannar) and is played fine, but might want to use medium settings for the quickest frame rate."

Yes, for under $500 you can play crysis on high, albeit lower resolution. 

EDIT: Ehhhh after checking my price points, intel can get you a core2duo that has a clockspeed better for DF (and overclocks better) but would be worse for just about everything else. Just swap in a E7400 and intel capable motherboard.

[ductape]

Amazing! Thank you so much for these tips.

lets say, WHAT IF I....

What if I was to go just a little over $500 and get an exponentially better setup. What would that one look like?