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[LASD]

Well, here's the voting around our deceased mafioso to use for thought:

MagmaDeath voted Nirur Torir and never changed, just FoSed Rooster and Org.

MagmaDeath got the votes of Nirur Torir, Errol, Org, Rooster and Nirur Torir again in that order. MagmaDeath got FoSed by Nirur Torir, me and GlyphGryph in that order.

So, SirBayer and CobaltKobold were the only ones who never pointed fingers at MagmaDeath.

CobaltKobold, didn't MagmaDeath seem suspicious to you?


I'm seriously WIFOMed about Nirur Torir. Tunneling your scumbuddy on day 1 seems like a horrible move, why I'd never think he'd be scum, but that would make it an excellent move. Nirur Torir, you've made me confused. And the cocky attitude isn't helping:

Oh, good. I was afraid I would be auto-assumed as town.

Why would you say that, unless you're scum looking for a challenge?

Rooster, that's obviously an excuse to join the bandwagon to bus your partner.

Of course it is! Especially day one! Make myself already look suspicious asshole and bus my partner and all at day one! You're so smart! Can I have your babyz?

Glyph Gryph: Don't assume I'm WIFOM'ing. It's an experiment. And really take my advice. Convince people to lynch me. That vents anger, or so I heard.

And Rooster whatever side you're on, saying these kind of things isn't good for you and generally forces the town to a mislynch. The other non-ignorable option is amazingly bad play by Mafia, though given the nature of the game, bad play can be good.

[Rooster]

I'm trying to see how the frick Org manages to be the least suspectable person on the entire forum.
And the most hated. So far I've seen nothing but success. I've tried to be the biggest asshole I could and what? Nothing happened. No villagers coming at me with torches. Lynch me or not I don't care, I got what I wanted

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Although I'll get more of that if you do lynch me. But keep in mind that this forum has to change and fricking punish Org for playing like this, because playing the asshole seems more profitable than meager scumhunting (see BM5 for that. I got killed because I unvoted Theevilmonk. Ain't that some shit?! Got probably also pushed by scum that time.)

I'm going to continue less Org'y, but still assholery and see how a non-lurking Org would fare at this game. It's a beginners mafia, and gathering knowledge is more important to me than actually playing it well here.

Note to self: Being an asshole means facing no consequences. Gotta watch House MD today
JUST IGNORE THE UPPER PART OF THE POST

Nirur Torir you're so stupid it hurts you know?! Your purposefull tunnel vision?

TUNNEL MY ASS!

Lucky guesses... BAH!

[dakarian]

I'd like to comment on Org but given that he's in game, I won't.  If I can remember it, I can bring it up later.

As for assholes in general, it doesn't mean a clean break, but..welll.. I can put the oddness like this:

Mafia want to hide from suspicion.  As such, they tend to prefer acts that give as little suspicion to them as possible.  Even trying to get someone lynched is really only used to make sure THEY don't get lynched.  As such most prefer NOT to be noticed and hated by everyone in the world.

Acting like an asshole, though, means you are doing the opposite.  As such, after the "OMG I HATE YOU PLEASE DIE!!" passes away (and it doesn't always: I've seen a few lynches due to that) the town thinks "Well, mafia wouldn't do something that stupid" and walk away. 

Please don't run this into WIFOM land from here.  I'm talking generalities.  I KNOW from here it gets more complex, but such complexities happen much less than you think.  Mafia CAN be aggressive assholes but, more times than not, they AREN'T.

As town, though, remember your goal is NOT to survive.  Yes, being an asshole means you can live easier, but what's the point?  All that means is the mafia just lets you live until they win.  Survival means nothing if that happens (especially since, storywise, the mafia kills you in the end anyway )

So be soft, be assholy, be whatever, but remember your goal: to find scum.  If you find them best by pulling back and being mild mannered then do it, even if we cry out "PASSIVE SCUM!"  If you find the scum best by being an asshole then act like an ass.  I've seen it, it can work..crap I've become less 'pure logic' and more 'in your face' as I've gone on and I've done much better in catching scum for it. 

But remember, scum are 'faring well' when they outlive you.  Town only farewell when the scum die.  If what you are doing keeps you alive but does little else, then you're either a scum that's winning or a town that's losing.

[dakarian]

OH BY THE WAY.

In bay 12, take a good note NOT just on how people act and lynch..but on the results of the game.  Go look at other games and see how the town acts, then look at the end to see whether they won or loss.  Bonus points if you check to see if they won only because of a power in their roles rather than scumhunting.

And before its said: YES, town can win regularly with scumhunting....whether they DO is more about the skill in their hunt.  It means something when I say that the best scumhunting I've seen is in BEGINNER'S MAFIA.

[Nirur Torir]

Nirur Torir you're so stupid it hurts you know?! Your purposefull tunnel vision?

Awesome! I can cause physical pain over the internet!

Lucky guesses... BAH!

Oh-ho-ho, I notice a pluralization, despite Magma being my only known lucky guess.

I'd like to comment on Org but given that he's in game, I won't.  If I can remember it, I can bring it up later.

I'm fairly sure I know what you're referring to. If you're not saying it it though, maybe I shouldn't either.

Oh, good. I was afraid I would be auto-assumed as town.

Why would you say that, unless you're scum looking for a challenge?

Because it's Beginner's Mafia. Any other beginners watching need to know to suspect everyone, even if they're nearly certain the person is townie.

[GlyphGryph]

So far I've seen nothing but success.

You've seen nothing but success because you weren't lynched round 1? A round where we DID successfully lynch a scum? What success was there, exactly? Is it that you're scum and you lived, or are you taking credit for the lynch against magma?

You certainly don't seem "Org"ish, that's for sure - but even if you're not scum, your whole game plan seems to be to sabotage the town, which I suppose could be considered similiar. Are you trying for a Refuge in Audacity? To say "I look so scummy I couldn't be scum" ? Well, only one way to find out, then, since you seem intent on getting lynched - let's lynch you.

Rooster - What would you have learned if your "experiment" results in a round 2 town win?

Nirur, I can't believe a scum would tunnel bus their partner turn 1. But I'm well aware that you are smart, and good at this game - you won BM5 without me ever even suspecting you (though others did). Maybe, just maybe, I could see you trying to pull of something crazy like that. Your attitude since the lynch certainly hasn't helped. Maybe it wasn't even an intentional bus. Maybe a scum fight got out of hand? Who knows, but don't think your in the clear.

Addendum: Two posts by Dakarian while I waited, who said a lot of the things I wanted to say about the "Org" strategy, about how a success is a result of faction win/loss, NOT of personal "turns survived". I don't know if Org is a winner or not, but I haven't seen any particular evidence he is. I took out the lengthier parts that were just repeats.

Addendum: God damn it that is the third time I've tried to post this. I love it when it's this busy.

[Rooster]

Nirur: Next time wear a condom when you're fucking my mind.
I BAH'ed at lucky guesses in general, yours was a lucky guess. Lucky guesses are not that uncommon.

Glyph Gryph: Ain't this what worked for Alexhans for much time?
Bitch, lynch me, vote me, whatever if you want I don't care. I feel sorry for you. In that you take my assholery the wrong way, and think I'm lying. I never said that I'm doing this shit to survive. (Is that the 3rd time I repeat this?). I'm doing this to mindfuck you and see how that works.

2nd day town win? That'd be awesome...ly random.

I would learn a whole lot. And why? Because I'm horribly bad at logical scum hunting. I have feelings toward people, but I have a hard time to prove them their scumminess and at the same time say something completely new. I'm still searching for a decent playstyle.

I'm totally into ladies action, but get out of Nirur's panties!

But I'm well aware that you are smart, and good at this game - you won BM5 without me ever even suspecting you

Wtf?

You were a moron last game and you didn't improve that much outside of not doing those "I'm townie" posts.

Nirur:Are you totally into Roleblocking, or Godfather'y?

[Nirur Torir]

First off, although it's hard to offend me, I think you'll cross a line with somebody if you keep up that intensity with your offensiveness.

Godfather all the way. That little bit of extra WIFOM if investigated is nice. Plus It's much easier then trying to figure out who the cop is.

CobaltKobold, I'd like an assessment of everybody from you please.

Dakarian, according to your rules, discounting all other factors, are the cop's investigations not revealed to the town if she is NKed?

[LASD]

Oh, good. I was afraid I would be auto-assumed as town.

Why would you say that, unless you're scum looking for a challenge?

Because it's Beginner's Mafia. Any other beginners watching need to know to suspect everyone, even if they're nearly certain the person is townie.

Yeah, that dawned on me just after I posted, but no edits allowed.

Rooster, I have a question for you: how did you know that Bayer was the cop?

Oh yeah, I'd like to now what are you basing this question on?


And Rooster, I wanted to lynch Org for his playstyle, though I suspected him of being scum, but after Magma flipped I don't really believe he is scum. It'd still be nice if he actually played and didn't just vote. So, Org get over here and say what you think of the situation.

[dakarian]

Dakarian, according to your rules, discounting all other factors, are the cop's investigations not revealed to the town if she is NKed?

The cop's investigations are never revealed to the town.  It's the cop's responsibility to decide when and how to deal with those investigations.  If she dies before she can tell then the secret is hitting with her.

It saved Webadict's hide in BM3, since he killed the cop N1 just as the cop found him guilty.  Made for a nice death scene too.

[Nirur Torir]

Rooster, I have a question for you: how did you know that Bayer was the cop?

Oh yeah, I'd like to now what are you basing this question on?

Nothing. It was an attempt to catch a scum off guard. Considering I just day 1 killed a scum with random tunnel vision, I figured it was worth a shot.

Rooster, I don't like what you're doing. You're intentionally ... I'm not even sure what sort of tells you're dropping. As an experiment you say. I'm very tempted to push for a lynch on you, so others aren't tempted to take it up.

[Errol]

Ah, please, don't leave me out of the picture. The only reason there was an opening was because I did the weird thing with the random vote.

One side here is scum, obviously. Either Rooster or Nirur. And Rooster just has a target symbol painted all over his ass, which is enough reason for me to not meddle in this affair. We need more info.

LASD, you've been very passive in this affair, as far as I can discern stuff. I have that feeling you're trying to stay under the radar.

[LASD]

One side here is scum, obviously. Either Rooster or Nirur. And Rooster just has a target symbol painted all over his ass, which is enough reason for me to not meddle in this affair. We need more info.

LASD, you've been very passive in this affair, as far as I can discern stuff. I have that feeling you're trying to stay under the radar.

You do know there's only two scum right? Of which one is left. And if you think either Rooster or Nirur is scum, I don't really know why you're voting me, except for putting weight on your accusation.

And yeah, I haven't really decided one way or another on the situation, I'm still waiting for CobaltKobold and Org to answer me and others. I don't think you should limit your suspicions only to Rooster or Nirur, if either of them is scum, she's being an amazingly bad mafia member. Though I understand not wanting to risk it.


Now, can anyone explain to me why GlyphGryph has avoided all suspicion? She was the last to "wake" to MagmaDeath's scumminess (apart from Cobaltkobold) and would be one of the nastiest persons to turn out scum. Also, she wasn't killed during the night.

The night kill was rather interesting matter in itself, I wonder if the IC suggested killing a lurkish person in the hopes of hitting a Powerrole. Based on this decision I think the Mafia has a powerrole of it's own, most likely a Godfather (IIRC he's almost required to turn up with a Cop). That would be fortunate as we wouldn't even have use for the cop, so eat it Godfather. You should've gone for a scumhunter instead.


I'm already thinking we could use a day extension, at least I will. Remember, we still can't miss more than twice.

[Rooster]

Don't confuse me LASD!

I still didn't get my sex change operation! I still have my manly parts.

Nirur: Sure, go ahead.

But please, people try to fricking read each and every kill. Even if it's plain WIFOM.

You haven't seen nothing yet. In LCS mafia Alexhans was... intense.
I'll just try to limit my offensive words, but that definitelly has some effect on you, or you would let me go rampart.

[Org]

Reading over what has happened.