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[Frelock]

And as a responsible person, he should have checked before he acted. Irresponsible spur of the moment actions are almost as dangerous to the town as scum are, plus you're assuming that he's telling the truth and isn't scrambling to try and find a defence, i suspect he got caught off guard and without a reasonable explanation, so he shot for the 'i didn't know officer, promise' defence as a last resort. Interestingly, you seem to have bought it hook, line and sinker, combined with your previous assassin bot comment makes me very suspicious of you too Frelock.

More like a person saying "but officer, in the city code, section I article 5, it specifically states that jaywalking is done across a street, it says nothing about a parking lot."

And I'm believing he thought that way because I thought that exact same way.  My original comment was asking for clarification on the rule.  I expected the answer to be "nope, assassin bot won't trigger the deadman bomb."  I also thought it would be a good way of informing any mad scientists that might have been present that this would be an excellent time to use their one-shot item.  If I was scum, I wouldn't have need of such crude communication methods as broadcasting intentions to the entire thread.  Of course, supposedly Forsaken put his assassin bot order in as soon as panda claimed, so I don't know how you think that statement incriminates me.

[forsaken1111]

He did a completely logical action based on a fallous assumption that a deadman bomb wouldn't be triggered by the assassin bot(and if we insisted Meph go directly by the book, the deadman bomb didn't cover day-kills or morning-kills).  With that assumption, town has a moral imperative to use an assassin bot in that situation.  Either a survivor or scum dies, both of which help the town.

And as a responsible person, he should have checked before he acted. Irresponsible spur of the moment actions are almost as dangerous to the town as scum are, plus you're assuming that he's telling the truth and isn't scrambling to try and find a defence, i suspect he got caught off guard and without a reasonable explanation, so he shot for the 'i didn't know officer, promise' defence as a last resort. Interestingly, you seem to have bought it hook, line and sinker, combined with your previous assassin bot comment makes me very suspicious of you too Frelock.

Would you ask Meph if a mind shield protects you from a psychic effect? No... Why? Because it's in the rules. Would you ask if it protects you from day kills? No... because it doesn't mention anywhere in the rules that it should.

It didn't say anywhere in meph's stated rules that a day kill would set off the deadman bomb. The DMB specifically stated that it would go off if the person was voted or was night killed. Why would I think "Oh man I better ask if this will also have some effect, even though the rules state it won't."

It didn't matter this time, because he didn't have a bomb, but you better believe I would have insisted that meph go with his stated rules rather than make something up on the spot which was never part of the game until now. Certainly this is a situation he probably didn't consider, but the rules covered it.. or rather they did NOT cover it, which was logical grounds for me to assume nothing would happen.

The timeline was simple... Pandar claimed to have a bomb, I looked up the rules for the bomb 3 minutes later. The rules stated nothing bad happening on a day kill. I sent meph the PM to kill him a while later, once I saw all the discussion. When meph woke up or got back to the computer or whatever a few hours later, he saw my PM and acted.

[Neruz]

Would you ask Meph if a mind shield protects you from a psychic effect? No... Why? Because it's in the rules. Would you ask if it protects you from day kills? No... because it doesn't mention anywhere in the rules that it should.

If Meph introduced a psychic effect that killed people, i would indeed clarify if mind shield protected against it. The Assassin Bot - DMB one is one that i jumped on immediately because i realised two things:

One: The Day Kill is a very rare and often overlooked ability.
Two: The DMB was clearly supposed to go off in the event of the owner dying, regardless of reason.


I also realised that Meph is not a computer, he is a human, i realised it was likely he had not considered the day-kill scenario and so did the safe thing and asked for clarification. We were in no rush; day was not scheduled to end for ages yet, there was absolutely no reason to suddenly leap forward and assassin-bot Pandar, none. It was jumpy, it was ill-concieved, it was risky and it was a best case scum scenario.

It didn't matter this time, because he didn't have a bomb, but you better believe I would have insisted that meph go with his stated rules rather than make something up on the spot which was never part of the game until now. Certainly this is a situation he probably didn't consider, but the rules covered it.. or rather they did NOT cover it, which was logical grounds for me to assume nothing would happen.

You know, you sound like some people i've played Dungeons and Dragons with before. And you know what? They always forget about Rule 0: What the Mod says, Goes.

They also always seem to forget that the rules are written by people and mistakes can happen; you even admitted this yourself "Certainly this is a situation he probably didn't consider", so why did you just unthinkingly act instead of pausing to clarify?


You know what; at this juncture i don't even care if you are town (which i doubt), you're clearly far too spontainious, and that makes you extremely dangerous.

[Neruz]

Ack, pressed post by accident, allow me to continue;

You know what; at this juncture i don't even care if you are town (which i doubt), you're clearly far too spontainious, and that makes you extremely dangerous and a serious liability to the town. Anyone who elects to kill someone on a snap decision in uncertain rules conditions with potentially really bad ramificatins at worst, and only average ramifications at best is a danger and a liability. I can't help but wonder if you'd make the same sort of snap decision when voting.

I don't believe a word you're saying, and even if i did you still look like a serious liability to me. A Survivor i can deal with; they're technically anti-town, but predictable. You might be pro-town, but you're unpredictable, and that makes you dangerous.

[forsaken1111]

So you don't care if I'm town now, you just want me lynched?

Look, I'm sorry if my style of play doesn't line up with yours. I don't stop and run the odds for every decision, I go with a gut instinct and react. If you don't like that, that is your prerogative but you'll just have to deal with it because I doubt "I don't like him!" is a valid argument for getting someone lynched. The fact is I helped the town out, and you're whining because it 'wasn't safe'. This is a forum game, its intended to be fun. Taking risks is part of the game, and this one was my decision. Deal with it.

[Neruz]

"I don't like him." is indeed not a good enough reason to lynch someone.

"I think that he is scum, he is also dangerous and unpredictable." Most certainly is, however.


And i am dealing with it; that's why my vote is remaining firmly on you.


(I also feel i should add that we've been known to lynch people because we don't like them all the time. Org being the ultimate example.)

[Neruz]

By the way; if you want to launch personal attacks or sing a few bars of Ad Hominem. A Mafia game really isn't the best place to do it.

[forsaken1111]

Personal attacks? Really?

I'm defending myself against a really silly argument and now it's a personal attack.

I'm just going to ignore you.

[Neruz]

You accused me of 'whining', sounds like a personal attack to me.

[forsaken1111]

Then you have very thin skin, and should not be on the internet. If I hurt your feelings I apologize.

The basis of your argument seems to be that my actions were not 'safe'. I have explained that I thought the assassin bot would not set off the bomb, and why. If you cannot accept my explanation, that doesn't really concern me. Your response was that I should have checked with meph, even though there was no reason to do so. I am not a mind-reader, I take what is written in the rules and use it. None of this makes me 'unpredictable' or 'unsafe' or even unhelpful for the town.

Why are you so focused on me? Are you really that convinced that a dopp would have used his assassin bot day 1 to maybe get 2 free kills? If I was a dopp I would have saved it, as I said previously, until the exterminator had done some of my work for me and possibly saved it for a free lylo win.

[Neruz]

I assure you, my feeling are not hurt, i was merely pointing out that resorting to ad hominem in a Mafia game is usually the sign of a very desperate scum indeed.


You also seem to be rather enjoying making up stuff about my posts, like how i am whining at you, and how you hurt my feelings, and so on. You're looking so scummy right now it's almost painful to read your posts.

[Neruz]

You also seem to be rather fixated on this concept that the Dopps would wait and let the Exterminator do some work for them.

Unfortunately this argument hinges on knowing that Pandar was an Exterminator, and that was impossible.


Basically, you seem to be basing you're entire defence on facts that you couldn't possibly have known, your defence has more holes in it than a sieve.

[forsaken1111]

You're looking so scummy right now it's almost painful to read your posts.

Right back at ya. Why else would you try so hard to convince others of this ridiculous idea? Your argument against me is based on nothing more than your distaste for a rash action. You whined about that action, about how it wasn't safe and was too unpredictable. You then called me out for personal attacks, and when I apologize for possibly hurting your feelings I am making stuff up. Are you even trying? You aren't very good at this.

You also seem to be rather fixated on this concept that the Dopps would wait and let the Exterminator do some work for them.

Unfortunately this argument hinges on knowing that Pandar was an Exterminator, and that was impossible.


Basically, you seem to be basing you're entire defence on facts that you couldn't possibly have known, your defence has more holes in it than a sieve.

It seemed likely. Pandar wouldn't have made the claim if he was town, and it would have been stupid to do as a dopp. The only roles it really made sense for were survivor, sort of, and exterminator. There was even discussion after his claim about the possibility of him being an exterminator, and this would have become pretty obvious Night 1 when an exterminator killed someone. Were I a dopp I would have banked on him being either a survivor (probably would help the dopps) or an exterminator, which means he'd have likely killed a townie or two and I could take him out at any time.

[forsaken1111]

And at this point you have me fairly convinced that we have indeed found our first scum Neruz. Your arguments are entirely invalid.

Unvote, vote Neruz.

[Neruz]

And were i a Dopp i would have killed him right there, safe in the knowledge that no matter what happened, the odds greatly favoured me.

Oooh, then i could totally go "Oh hey, it's alright, the outcome was pro-town so you guys can just ignore me, cause i did something pro town so i must be innocent right?"


Maybe i should try that one next time i'm scum; bandwagon lynch one of my scum buddies and then tell everyone that i can't possibly be scum because i just did something pro-town based on information that i didn't have, thus i'm ovbiously cleared of any scumminess.



Oh, and hey, i can declare your arguments invalid too. There you go, isn't that awesome.