Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[platypus]

Dwarf Fortress handles grime and decay, which is admirable; but why is dwarven waste management not modeled?

I would enjoy building latrine areas and sewage pipes. You could store it in tanks, dry it into combustible blocks, funnel it into bottomless pits, onto elven caravans, or simply hook it up to that carp-infested underground river that's always bugged you. It would be the Third Liquid. =)

But seriously, sewers would be a fun logistical challenge, with a very interesting historical basis, e.g.:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanitation_in_ancient_Rome

[Maggarg - Eater of chicke]

It would be fun indeed.
I'd just leave it in an open pit.

[Aqizzar]

Okay, look.  There's this whole section of the forum specifically for suggesting features and ideas.  If you went there and used the Search function, you'd find out that there's already a literal crapload of threads devoted to arguing the pros and cons of waste management as a game feature.

You would also find that Toady has flat out stated that this is the one area of detail he will never ever touch.  He's not going to make dwarf poop, he's not going to make the player deal with it.  It's just not going to happen.

[platypus]

Sorry, I only searched the DF General Discussion section. The fact that there was no mention of this should have raised a flag.

Feel free to delete this thread or move it.

*plays his New Member Card and prays for lenience*

[Nexii Malthus]

Bottom left corner > Move Topic.

On Topic, I do agree, Waste Management would be seriously awesome towards adding a vital element of the importance to surface access or other external access prone to outer forces. Further removing the ability to create a fully isolated, and therefore invulnerable, underground fortress. As well as catering towards the important hygiene of your dwarfs, after all, your dwarfs are supposed to be the ultimate architects and mechanical geniuses. Yet sanitation is abstracted out?

Although, I don't think it may be an appropriate time to put such a thing in but much later in stages of development.

My biggest worry is that Toady may be hurting and fighting against his own dreams of creating The simulator by thinking that he must sacrifice vast portions to appease some strange sterilised and conditioned target audience. An imaginary audience that can easily handle brutally butchering kittens, but is absolutely disgusted when they see poo simulated to some vaguely abstract degree?

[/frustration]

[Deimos56]

I've always wondered about that bit.
We're entirely content with breeding sentient creatures for their valuable bones (I'm looking at you, mermaid killers.), but this happens whenever waste management comes up.

[zwei]

I've always wondered about that bit.
We're entirely content with breeding sentient creatures for their valuable bones (I'm looking at you, mermaid killers.), but this happens whenever waste management comes up.

Reminds me a bit of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strikebreaker_%28short_story%29

As is player were afraid that playing game with sewage will make them smell

[Barrel Roll]

Dwarves would probably only have to use the restroom once or twice a year. That seems like a good balance.

[Blind Wolf]

Bottom left corner > Move Topic.

My biggest worry is that Toady may be hurting and fighting against his own dreams of creating The simulator by thinking that he must sacrifice vast portions to appease some strange sterilised and conditioned target audience. An imaginary audience that can easily handle brutally butchering kittens, but is absolutely disgusted when they see poo simulated to some vaguely abstract degree?

Toady has stated that he, personally, doesn't want to simulate sewage, as Aqizzar pointed out above. So your statement about 'appeasing some sterilized target audience' is baseless.

[Armok]

I think it shuldn't be in the vanilla, but it shuld be posible to mod it in.

[Footkerchief]

You would also find that Toady has flat out stated that this is the one area of detail he will never ever touch.  He's not going to make dwarf poop, he's not going to make the player deal with it.  It's just not going to happen.

What the heck, he's never said that, at least not that I've seen.  Here's what I could find on the topic:

There are no plans to add "night soil".  Dwarves poop little pebbles which seemlessly disappear into the cavern floor, or they collect them and cherish them or something.

[topic: "Livestock improvements"]

4.  Manure, as a fertilizer.

4. They just drop it everywhere?  Everyone will might be doing it after a while... night soil, and so on.  But it's a dangerous door to open, especially if the room on the other side is full.  If a god turns you into a horse in adventure mode, would you suddenly start dropping the bomb?

Note the dates.  I think he also once said in an interview or something that he'd only be interested in adding it if it was a fun element of the game.

As for sewers themselves, he's definitely positive about adding those:
# PowerGoal153, THE CRACKS OF DOOM, (Future): You flee into the sewer with the baron's ring, but sliding in the muck, you drop it. Try as you might, you cannot locate the precious object in the town's filth.

And finally, it's worth noting that shit and piss are already in the game.  Everyone who's encountered tentacle demons has probably discovered this for themselves, and Toady confirmed it recently:

Rainseeker:   [1e.4]So there's no poo creatures either?
Toady:   It was a close thing! Because it was literally a decision I had to make, going down this list, because in the Hidden Fun Stuff of course if you get the tentacle demons then you get a layer scattered with various filth on the ground; and there's brown filth and yellow filth and so on and it's not clearly stated but it's a material that I had to put in properties for right? So there's these hard-coded filth materials, and when I was going down the list, you know 'Do I want creatures made out of mud? Do I want creatures made out of vomit? Do I want creatures made out of glass?', there's all these hard-coded materials, and I was just like 'Yeah, yeah, yeah ... No ... No ...' on the filth. But there are creatures made out of the grime, and the grime material is the material that collects on your body slowly over time, and it's also the material that's used in swamp water, so there's this ... I just needed this material called 'grime' for these miscellaneous purposes, it's just crap, just stuff that collects over time and when a creature is made out of that it just says 'composed of grime and filth'. So if you want to call that 'poo' even though it's not it's possible for you to extend your imagination.

[roguester]

Yea I'd like to see sanitation at some point. even if it's abstracted as "filth" or "waste". I think it would add something to fortress design, especially when diseases go in. I'd also like to see dwarves with the clean job grabbing a bucket of water and a mop and heading out, then dumping the bucket of waste water down the hatch. It also adds all sorts of options for composting etc. since I presume at some point wet stone alone will no longer grow crops.

[Sensei]

I think 'filth' is actually probably more logical for DF's technology level and gameplay- it's not that it matters terribly what the filth is.

[FluffyToast J]

Indeed; its all the same to dwarves.

[PTTG??]

I wouldn't mind it if "filth" as a contaminant existed and perhaps could cause disease. Combine this with a way for contaminants to act a little bit like liquids- such as by having them add 1/7ths to fluids they are in- and maybe by having hygine-ing dwarves produce a unit of Filth that has to be dumped somewhere.

There's quite a few ways that something like this could be done with a modicum of tastefulness that will make proper sewers useful.

Now, move this thread to the proper place!