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[Luke_Prowler]

Is mine excepted or do I need to figure out how to add more thrust?

[Itnetlolor]

Fun, in at least this edition of the game, should be fairly evenly distributed. Mostly right now, I think your best defense against damage is redundancy. But we'll see what kind of mood I'm in when we get a seriously asymmetrically damaged ship.

My brain just hurts trying to think up how to balance the engines out so there's a level flight the rest of the way, let's not forget repair times that would have to be taken to patch up the ship and replace engines and reset the boilers (provided it needs any repairs first, and of course a reheat).

Like I said, it'll break my mind trying to crunch the numbers to keep at least my ship afloat.

Fortunately, according to my numbers, I can maybe lose 4 engines before I have to consider doing major repairs/overhauls on the thing. Otherwise, I won't be able to have lift, and just go like a leaf in the wind and soar. I dunno, I'll need to name my pilot Wash if I expect any chance in a successful crash landing if I must. And that's if my ship is empty.

Filled like it is, I can't risk losing 2 engines, otherwise I might have to jettison some cargo to keep in the sky. But I'll save such a desperate measure for the end of the race, or if I seriously need to.

EDIT:
Thank God I remembered to add in the Trade Depot/Ship Shop. At least I would have a chance to restock.

[Shades]

• Thrust and Speed- 4243 power; 1107 Forward power at full throttle

And based on the first post which states a thruster gives 2 power and uses 1 fuel your engines are equivalent of 2121.5 thrusters, hope you have either 700 dwarfs (1 per 3 thrusters) or a hell of a lot of fuel to power that...

Hmm I'm gonna give up finishing my design, I don't get the op at all.

[GlyphGryph]

Well, I've decided I'm just going to add more harpies. Many many more harpies. Mwahahah. Except, doing the calculations... it still doesn't work. Ah well.

Seriously though, I can't figure out how any of the ships submitted so far can manage to move at all with the current rules.

Instead of motion being thrust-weight, it should be thrust/weight or something.

So I am officially withdrawing my ship, and building a new one. It's called, the Shell.

Also how much fuel do we get per section dedicated to fuel, anyways? My current plans assume 2.

Symbol: @
Only the double walls and sections between them are walkable. If you can even call it that. They are also extra reinforced walls, so strong they have a weight of 2 each. There are 21 sections, the 3x3 living area for my dwarf "pilot", and the 12 walls. (treating the diagonal double walls as single sections). That means my weight for the living area is 42.

Behind that is the thrusting cartridge. This is compose of one level which is 6 units of pure fuel at a weight of 1 each, surrounded by a wall on each side, for a total of 8 weight per fuel row for full rows, and 4 for the one partial row. The thrusters (I assume) considered weightless? We'll assume for now that they are weighted at .5 each. Thats 3+2(for the walls) for 5 weight per row.'

My thrusters are full burn, full power rockets. Normally thrusters produce two thrust for one fuel. My thrusters cam produce 4 thrust for 2 fuel, with the added disadvantage that they degrade after use. Of course, the thrusters are also 3 sections tall (hence the multiple levels).


So...
Glider - weight 1.
Capsule - weight 42 (43).
Secondary Thruster - Weight 48(91). Thrust - 32 thrusters -> 64 (128 at full burn)
Primary Thruster - Weight 115(206). Thrust- 60 thrusters -> 120 (240 at full burn)
Bracer Section - Lost at launch, so shouldn't actually matter, but weight 48.


    ===
  //+O+\\                Living compartment. Also Containts the landing glider, which is an unpowered
  ||   ||                            vehicle with 1 weight and 2 wings for 2 lift. As a glider, it can
  \\   //                               lose 1 altitude to gain 1 horizontal speed, its only type of thrust.
  |O===O|                        Secondary Thrust section. Expends fuel and drops off.
  |OOOOOO|                            Booze rockets, go!
  |OOOOOO|
  |^^^^^^|  |^^^^|   |^^^^| 
  |^^^^^^| |^^^^^^| |^^^^^^|   
  |OOOOOO|
  |OOOOOO|
  |OOOOOO|   Primary thruster. Goes until fuel runs out then drops off.
  |OOOOOO|          Booze rockets, go!
  |OOOOOO|
  |^^^^^^| |^^^^^^|
  |^^^^^^| |^^^^^^|
  |^^^^^^| |^^^^^^|
  |^^^^^^| |^^^^^^|
  |^^^^^^| |^^^^^^|
  ========
  ========
  ========                              Support section, drops off after ship launches.


You know what, nevermind, I'm done. I made a ship completely out of thrusters and still a)doesnt produce enough thrust to move, and b) doesnt have enough fuel to power the thrust.

[qwertyuiopas]

With potential complaints about insufficient lift, here is a slightly modified version: LArger wings, and slightly moved the decoration.


2*(7*3+6*2+5*2+4*2+3+2) wing tiles.
2*56

112

Still with 24 propellor force (Was counted with lift from wings, initially), and 105 weight.

[GlyphGryph]

With a weight of 56, your ship wont move.

[Itnetlolor]

When it comes to movements and speeds and whatnot, I would advise this for reference:
http://dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Speed

According to my numbers, in contrast to DF's Adventurer numbers, my ship is air-tight, and fully functional as an airship. HUZZAH!

Sure, it'll be sluggish in the beginning, but as days pass (ideally at the half-way mark of stocks), it should begin to make some decent progress; keeping funds and stocks well enough to keep the crew pleasant. However, the crew would have to be constantly busy cranking out crafts for trade so it can stay stocked the whole trip; minimizing contact with the ground and other ships/captains.

I never noticed just how much thought I put behind this ship, and how to operate it (in case races like this would happen). Not to brag, but I'm rather surprised with myself. Speaking of which, I gotta finish the actual megaproject itself. Now I want to finish building it.

[Luke_Prowler]

OK, alternate version:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

After some modifications, it should fly according to the rules


Background: "A steel airship? Preposterous" they said. True, previous attempts have all failed spectacularly, but that would not stop me. using a new technique, If have found a way to heat the air in the balloon to be able to lift the airship with ease. After hearing about this game, it would be the perfect place to test it. And what shall I call it? in honor of my "peers" I shall name it the Preposterous

Weight: 282
Lift: 612 (all from the balloons)
Lift modifier: 330
Thrust: 348
Speed: 66
Fuel: the micro furnaces require 2 coke/charcoal each day (one each). the propellers are fulled by fan in the back of the balloons, pushed by escaping air, which gives power to the propellers.
Food: 25 dedicated food storage, (plus 27 emergency space)
Crew: 3 members. Captian and ship mechanic, the cook and brewer, and wood cutter/carpenter/charcoal burner.
Weapons: 3 crossbows, 3 bolt stacks, and 1 copper axe.
Special: automated gangplank, 2 micro furnaces, an emergency turbo boost by opening the hole in the back of the balloon wider, sacrificing lift for speed, on-board well, steel hull.
Symbol: =
 

[florian]

z+0   z-1
  _     i
 /#\   
|óπb|   
|%.%|   
|%.%|  i⸫i
 \ɵ/   ⸫+⸫

Spoiler: Legend (click to show/hide)

Lines: Walls
.: Floor
i: Landing gear
#: Forward lavatory
ó: Control lever
π: Chair for resting
b: Bed
%: Food storage
ɵ: Goblin-ball engine
⸫: Thruster/Lifter
+: Gearbox, controlled by lever

Crew of two, one sleeping, one steering.

The goblin-ball engine has a ball with a [SPEED:1] goblin inside. The ball is one-way mirrored, so the goblins sees the crew, but the crew does not see the goblin. The goblin thus races forward and powers the ship. Because invaders neither need food nor sleep, he always runs, providing about 800 power.

Spoiler: Stats (click to show/hide)

Weight: 40
Lift: Variable, 100 mostly
Thrust: Variable, 700 mostly
Speed: 660
Food storage: 6 days
Attack capacity: Forward lavatory + bowels of crew

I think I got the highest Thrust:Weight ratio.

[Heron TSG]

You realize that in order to feed something that runs 800mph for a day, you would need several metric tons of food, right?

You can't simply make a single goblin power an airship. Even MY tiny one had to have massive wings put on, as well as far too many thrusters.

[RAM]

Siege goblin is a fun way to bypass food requirement, and cheating seems to be encouraged, but 3 thrusters will only give you 6 thrust. 1 dwarf can power 1 pump, so you are looking at a pump worth of power, about 40? 20? much less than 800 and I don't believe that speed 1 will change that. Last I heard this game wasn't modded that way...

[Itnetlolor]

I just figured out certain factors regarding throttle, weight scenarios, and how many engines I need to stay aloft at most all situations.

All I can say is, I better keep this thing light, and keep a good eye on the engines at all times.

Thank goodness I have 20 troops/engineers.


As broken as my ship seems, doing the math, it's actually balanced against everyone else. It's just going to require more work on my end to keep this boat in the sky.

With starting load (considering loadout as I listed (food, crew, approx. ammo), approx. 135 additional weight):
Top FWD speed- 972
Top UP Speed- 1820

It has a full throttle speed of an adventurer when moving forward. Fortunately it can climb pretty darn fast. So at least I can dodge mountains if I must. Hell, low-altitude flight/barnstorming is possible, since I got the numbers down, and a way of getting the throttle just right.

I freaking love Excel.

[GlyphGryph]

Attempt 2: Stripping of all that unneccesary armor and safety equipment for a lighter, faster ride!

Also how much fuel do we get per section dedicated to fuel, anyways? My current plans assume 2.

The Dwarf Rocket
Symbol: @
Only the double walls and sections between them are walkable. If you can even call it that. These walls are light walls, with a weight of .5, while the walkable areas include a floor and a roof for a weight of 1 (+.5 if full). There are 21 sections, the 3x3 living area for my dwarf "pilot", and the 12 walls. (treating the diagonal double walls as single sections). That means my weight for the living area, empty, is 15.

I plan on bringing 5 full slots of food, having 1 space as bed/living area, and three spaces for my glider. There is a unit of food and booze in the glider., as well as a "special package" which fills up the rest of the room there. You'll see what that is later. The controls are over my bed, and they are basically buttons. This vehicle has no ability to steer, really - it is merely "fired", though it does have altitude gauges inside.

Behind that is the thrusting cartridge. This is compose of one level which is 8 units of pure fuel at a weight of 1 each, for a total of 8 weight per fuel row for full rows, and 4 for empty rows. The thrusters will, for now, be considered weightless. There are 8 per row.

My thrusters are full burn, full power rockets. Normally thrusters produce two thrust for one fuel. My thrusters can produce 4 thrust for 2 fuel, with the added disadvantage that they degrade after sustained use if this option is used.

So...
Glider - weight 1
Capsule - weight 15(+1=16.5).
Capsule wings - Lift 30
Secondary Thruster, Containers - weight 24 (total weight 30)
Secondary Thruster, Fuel - amount 48, weight 24. (total weight 54)
Secondary Thruster, Wings - Lift 48 (total lift 78)
Secondary Thruster, Thrust - Thrust power 96 (48 slow burn), consumes 48 fuel per day.
Primary Thruster, Containers - weight 120 (total weight 174)
Primary Thruster, Fuel - amount 240, weight 120. (total weight 294)
Primary Thruster, Wings - Lift 240 (total lift 318)
Primary Thruster, Thrust - Thrust power 480 (240 slow), consumes 240 fuel per day.
[]
Level 0                          Level 1                            Level 2
                          ===
                    /---//+O+\\---\   Living compartment. Contains glider. That is a
                   /    ||   ||    \          vehicle with 1 weight and 2 wings for 2 lift. As a glider, it can
                  /-----\\   //------\    lose 1 altitude to gain 1 horizontal speed, its only type of thrust.
                          ===             Secondary Thrust section. Expends fuel and drops off.
/---OOOOOOOO---\    /---OOOOOOOO--\    /---OOOOOOOO---\                         Booze rockets, go!
----OOOOOOOO----    ----OOOOOOOO---    ----OOOOOOOO----
    ^^^^^^^^            ^^^^^^^^           ^^^^^^^^
    ^^^^^^^^            ^^^^^^^^        ^^^^^^^^
/---OOOOOOOO---\    /--OOOOOOOO---\    /---OOOOOOOO---\
|   OOOOOOOO   |    |   OOOOOOOO   |    |   OOOOOOOO   |
|   OOOOOOOO   |    |   OOOOOOOO   |    |   OOOOOOOO   | Primary thruster. Goes until fuel runs out then drops off.
|   OOOOOOOO   |    |   OOOOOOOO   |    |   OOOOOOOO   |     wingalings on the side of each level.
|   OOOOOOOO   |    |   OOOOOOOO   |    |   OOOOOOOO   |
|   OOOOOOOO   |    |   OOOOOOOO   |    |   OOOOOOOO   |
|   OOOOOOOO   |    |   OOOOOOOO   |    |   OOOOOOOO   |
|   OOOOOOOO   |    |   OOOOOOOO   |    |   OOOOOOOO   |
|   OOOOOOOO   |    |   OOOOOOOO   |    |   OOOOOOOO   |
----OOOOOOOO----    ----OOOOOOOO----    ----OOOOOOOO----
    ^^^^^^^^            ^^^^^^^^           ^^^^^^^^
    ^^^^^^^^            ^^^^^^^^           ^^^^^^^^
    ^^^^^^^^            ^^^^^^^^           ^^^^^^^^
    ^^^^^^^^            ^^^^^^^^           ^^^^^^^^
    ^^^^^^^^            ^^^^^^^^           ^^^^^^^^
[]

Final Numbers:
Occupants: 1. Proffessor Penny
Food: 15 days worth
Fuel, secondary, 1 days worth (2 on slow burn)
Fuel, primary, 1 days worth (2 on slow burn)
Excess Lift = 24
Initial speed = 480 - 294 = 186
For safety purposes, thats being split first turn so total lift is 110 and speed is 100.

AND I AM DONE WITH A WORKING SHIP

[Itnetlolor]

Hmm... Seeing how there are rockets, gliders, humangoblin-powered machines and such. Think we should have a ceiling (max. functional altitude) set? For example, My ship can only operate so well until let's say 60,000 feet or something (but considering steam power, and the atmosphere's effect at higher altitudes, it may be reduced to maybe 30,000-40,000 instead); plenty of the rocket ones can reach upwards to well above 250,000 feet; and more of the lesser-powered ones have a ceiling of between a couple thousand feet to about 10,000 tops.

Considering these factors, it can make some of the lesser-class ships have more of a challenge getting around; unless flying utilizing thermal lift is factored in. In that case, I advise larger and lighter wings for your ships.

I guess we need a good DF equivalent of height to convert the measurements to.

[florian]

z+0                z-1
         _
        /ó\        ⸫⸫⸫⸫⸫⸫⸫⸫ ⸫⸫⸫⸫⸫⸫⸫⸫
 ɵɵɵɵɵɵɵɵπɵɵɵɵɵɵɵɵ ⸫⸫⸫⸫⸫⸫⸫⸫ ⸫⸫⸫⸫⸫⸫⸫⸫
        \%/       
        |%|       
        |%|       
        |%|
        /%\        ⸫⸫⸫⸫⸫⸫⸫⸫ ⸫⸫⸫⸫⸫⸫⸫⸫
 ɵɵɵɵɵɵɵɵbɵɵɵɵɵɵɵɵ ⸫⸫⸫⸫⸫⸫⸫⸫ ⸫⸫⸫⸫⸫⸫⸫⸫
        \%/       
        |%|       
        |%|       
        |%|       
        /%\        ⸫⸫⸫⸫⸫⸫⸫⸫ ⸫⸫⸫⸫⸫⸫⸫⸫
 ɵɵɵɵɵɵɵɵbɵɵɵɵɵɵɵɵ ⸫⸫⸫⸫⸫⸫⸫⸫ ⸫⸫⸫⸫⸫⸫⸫⸫
        \_/        $$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$

My previous design might have been a little bit cheaty. Well, this definitively is. It's powered by 48 pumps {⸫}, each providing 120 thrust. Total weight is 200. Total thrust is 5760, 1920 of that can be used as lift, thanks to the rudder-thingies {$}. Food for ten days.

Next up: A design that is not that cheaty. We need some better rules, I think.