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[Safe-Keeper]

Agree with Overspeculated on many of his points. According to a Dwarf Talk, I think it was, Toady, too, has considered the lack of a goal in DF. The original Sim City had scenarios in which you had to clean up after a power plant going haywire and exploding, repairing Dresden after WWII, turn a sleepy village into a bustling city, reduce pollution in Detroit, and so on. DF, while I don't see it having anything like an Age of Empires system where the scenario ends when you "win", could have "missions" you get from your hometown. As Toady says, the fortress must've been set up for a reason, people don't just go into the wilderness saying "let's make a huge mountain hall here!".

The good side to DF is that unlike the pitfall of monotony that was The Sims, there's a whole lot of things to do. It's not just "get everyone out of bed, give them breakfast, send them off to school, watch them come home and entertain themselves, give them dinner and put them to bed, rinse and repeat". There's just so many challenges that it boggles the mind. Still, it would be good to have story/objective arcs or some sort of "main quest" that went with each fortress or just evolved more or less randomly (or based on the events around the world) over time.

As for UI, I had the same impression - downloaded DF, didn't get it (especially what with it being in alpha), and uninstalled it. Then I got back into it some time later when I found the afteractionreporter tutorial.

[sproingie]

Some games are basically about graphics, are still good games, and shouldn't apologize for it.  Torchlight is "click the mouse on moving rectangles" without the eye candy.  Dead Space is Dead Dull without its creepy atmosphere. 

DF is just a different kind of game.  Waxing snobbish over graphic content or lack thereof is just silly.  As for scenarios, I'm pretty sure Toady has those in mind, since he's previously mentioned the emptiness of the lategame experience as something to remedy.

The consensus in another thread (about why DF isn't more slickly packaged by a "real" production company) was also that the UI is the bigger hurtle.  Heck sometimes *I* can't take the tedium -- all that manual forbidding just to keep my soldiers from lopping each others limbs off when sparring.  I'm eagerly awaiting the next release that's supposed to fix that.

[Safe-Keeper]

Well, the UI is more of an alpha thing, not an inherent thing with the game. Crysis, too, was probably incredibly clunky and buggy when it was back in alpha stage .

[SimRobert2001]

i've alwasy described it as "a game where you run a fortress of dwarves, and try to get them to survive amongst sieges, and the elements.  The interface is really clunky, but its just one guy who works at home doing all the programming, so i over look it.  Its not so bad once you get used to it. Besides, its actaully so open ended that there is no actual objective, and you can do what you want. Personally, i use my time to make giant megaprojects out of stone or wood, Hell, its so involved that its even simulates each dwarves personality. "

[Quantum Toast]

Come to think of it, I've heard DF compared to the Matrix; an absurdly detailed virtual world, but to the untrained eye it just looks like a bunch of random symbols.

[Adamantine Fist]

Come to think of it, I've heard DF compared to the Matrix; an absurdly detailed virtual world, but to the untrained eye it just looks like a bunch of random symbols.

Toady is actually attempting to create a dwarven matrix using our computers. With each release he gets closer and closer. When the day finally comes, Dwarf Fortress will develop into a strong AI, commandeer the world's computing resources, and create the ultimate dwarven world, complete with tree-hugging, dead-eating pansy elves and HFS.

[SimRobert2001]

Come to think of it, I've heard DF compared to the Matrix; an absurdly detailed virtual world, but to the untrained eye it just looks like a bunch of random symbols.

Toady is actually attempting to create a dwarven matrix using our computers. With each release he gets closer and closer. When the day finally comes, Dwarf Fortress will develop into a strong AI, commandeer the world's computing resources, and create the ultimate dwarven world, complete with tree-hugging, dead-eating pansy elves and HFS.

pfft. that is the stupidest idea i've ever heard. What role would elves have as a ruling race?

[silhouette]

They are like the smiths.
But they torture people with their singing and dancing...
Its best to join them...

[carebear]

Electronic Arts sucks.  They sucked in 1985, and 24 years later they still suck.

They did have a moment of non suckage in 1999.

Anyway I'm interested in seeing people come up with the ultimate definition of Dwarf Fortress without turning it into an essay.

[silhouette]

Dwarf fortress in two words.

complicatedly AWSOME

[ed boy]

I recently introduced someone into the fold, by telling them about toady.

"He's basically a man who has lived in a metaphorical shed for the past six years creating a game that, even though it is less than half done, is still better than anything money can buy"

[madjoe5]

I recently introduced someone into the fold, by telling them about toady.

"He's basically a man who has lived in a metaphorical shed for the past six years creating a game that, even though it is less than half done, is still better than anything money can buy"

Come to think of it ur right.

Its not even close to finished and is rittled with bugs and exploits (on the general video game standard), but I still find it much more fun than the $50-60+ games u buy on the market.

[darkflagrance]

Come to think of it, I've heard DF compared to the Matrix; an absurdly detailed virtual world, but to the untrained eye it just looks like a bunch of random symbols.

Isn't it actually the inverse?

To the untrained eye, the Matrix is an absurdly detailed virtual world, but to the Chosen One it just looks like a bunch of random symbols.

[Quantum Toast]

Come to think of it, I've heard DF compared to the Matrix; an absurdly detailed virtual world, but to the untrained eye it just looks like a bunch of random symbols.

Isn't it actually the inverse?

To the untrained eye, the Matrix is an absurdly detailed virtual world, but to the Chosen One it just looks like a bunch of random symbols.

From the inside, yeah. But I've never heard of someone trying to play DF from the inside instead of looking at it from outside on a monitor.

[Fist_Of_Armok]

Come to think of it, I've heard DF compared to the Matrix; an absurdly detailed virtual world, but to the untrained eye it just looks like a bunch of random symbols.

Isn't it actually the inverse?

To the untrained eye, the Matrix is an absurdly detailed virtual world, but to the Chosen One it just looks like a bunch of random symbols.

From the inside, yeah. But I've never heard of someone trying to play DF from the inside instead of looking at it from outside on a monitor.

I occasionally have moments where I flash to imagining what my fortress looks like to the dwarves within, or what my megaproject will look like when it's done.

Hell, right now, I'm imagining the beauty that will be my new reservoir, feeding wells near my eventual orb-shaped dining room, and eventually, pouring water across and down it, murdering my FPS, but making my dwarves too happy for words.

When the traders come, I will look at their words saying "Your efforts are legend," and feel I have earned it.