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Author Topic: "So it's like The Sims?" she asked.  (Read 42044 times)

Particleman

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Re: "So it's like The Sims?" she asked.
« Reply #60 on: December 13, 2009, 10:48:22 am »

I'd go with something like "Take The Sims, except you don't have to micromanage every single person. Then cross it with Legos, and add monsters and magma and useless politicians you get to torment."
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mattie2009

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Re: "So it's like The Sims?" she asked.
« Reply #61 on: December 13, 2009, 12:35:53 pm »

I'd call DF the unholy lovechild of a threeway between a roguelike, the sims and a drunk.
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Safe-Keeper

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Re: "So it's like The Sims?" she asked.
« Reply #62 on: December 13, 2009, 04:51:18 pm »

I think I agree with Siegel here: I appreciate good graphics, but they're not a necessity, and may easily be an actual hindrance.

Take Mirror's Edge - on-foot racing game with a focus on immersion. The cutting-edge graphics fit it well.

What about Crysis? Main innovation was that you could blow apart vegetation and buildings. Were the good graphics a good thing there? Well, they heightened immersion, but in the end I think they scared away more people than they drew in, plus that a lot of people felt, for some inexplicable reason, that they couldn't play the game if they had to turn the graphics down.

In my opinion - and I know I'll catch the wrath of many Crysis fans when I say this - I believe Crysis would've been as good, or better, with average graphics. There would've been more memory freed up to do an even deeper physics/destruction engine, and more players would've been lured in.

But for Dwarf Fortress, and other realistic/deep games such as Falcon 4.0 Allied Force? No need for good graphics, authenticity and depth is what counts.
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"Sieging humans brought some war polar bears, and one of them started a camp fire. Highly trained!" --Today One accidentally introduces the panserbjørn into Dwarf Fortress lore

DarthRavanger

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Re: "So it's like The Sims?" she asked.
« Reply #63 on: December 13, 2009, 05:17:45 pm »

In my opinion - and I know I'll catch the wrath of many Crysis fans when I say this - I believe Crysis would've been as good, or better, with average graphics. There would've been more memory freed up to do an even deeper physics/destruction engine, and more players would've been lured in.
Your completely right about that. I would have liked the game even more if they cut down the graphics and made the very ground beneath your feet part of the alterable environment.
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Safe-Keeper

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Re: "So it's like The Sims?" she asked.
« Reply #64 on: December 13, 2009, 07:01:10 pm »

A section of the island has collapsed!

Yes, destructible environments would be awesome. Was one of the most memorable parts of UFO Defense :) . Except it was even more lenient with cave-ins than DF. "Hmm, I just shot the entire ground floor of that house away, why is the rest of it hovering in mid-air?" :D
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"Sieging humans brought some war polar bears, and one of them started a camp fire. Highly trained!" --Today One accidentally introduces the panserbjørn into Dwarf Fortress lore

Sensei

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Re: "So it's like The Sims?" she asked.
« Reply #65 on: December 13, 2009, 10:17:03 pm »

You ever play Worms 4?  8)
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Fist_Of_Armok

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Re: "So it's like The Sims?" she asked.
« Reply #66 on: December 13, 2009, 10:51:35 pm »

I've described Dwarf Fortress as equal parts The Sims, SimCity, and Lord of the Rings.

Which is inaccurate as hell and probably some form of lie, but as Terry Pratchett puts it, it's the kind of lie that helps you understand the truth.

Usually, I have my laptop with me-so I load it up, take whoever it is by the shoulder, and go "This is Thobtishak, which means GirderTyphoons in the Dwarven language. For two hundred years, it has stood the test of time, fending off Goblin invasions, elves, and even a dragon. It is the home of Kubuk Kuletusan, a bone-carver so skilled that every craft leaving his workshop is a masterpiece; it is home to two legendary champions who have killed hundreds of Goblins; it is home to a pair of bastard nobles who never shut up about their precious silver and rose gold...but here, look at the dining room; and the rooms tower, and the place that will one day be a colosseum, ooh, and the farm complex...

If they're a girl, I'll show them the various personalities of the dwarves; if they're a guy, I'll show them the dwarves duelling in the barracks.

Admittedly, I don't have too many converts, but most of the gamers around here are of the "ooh shiney" breed."
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Fist_Of_Armok

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Re: "So it's like The Sims?" she asked.
« Reply #67 on: December 13, 2009, 11:23:14 pm »

I've described Dwarf Fortress as equal parts The Sims, SimCity, and Lord of the Rings.

Which is inaccurate as hell and probably some form of lie, but as Terry Pratchett puts it, it's the kind of lie that helps you understand the truth.

Usually, I have my laptop with me-so I load it up, take whoever it is by the shoulder, and go "This is Thobtishak, which means GirderTyphoons in the Dwarven language. For two hundred years, it has stood the test of time, fending off Goblin invasions, elves, and even a dragon. It is the home of Kubuk Kuletusan, a bone-carver so skilled that every craft leaving his workshop is a masterpiece; it is home to two legendary champions who have killed hundreds of Goblins; it is home to a pair of bastard nobles who never shut up about their precious silver and rose gold...but here, look at the dining room; and the rooms tower, and the place that will one day be a colosseum, ooh, and the farm complex...

If they're a girl, I'll show them the various personalities of the dwarves; if they're a guy, I'll show them the dwarves duelling in the barracks.

Admittedly, I don't have too many converts, but most of the gamers around here are of the "ooh shiney" breed."
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Sensei

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Re: "So it's like The Sims?" she asked.
« Reply #68 on: December 14, 2009, 12:10:55 am »

Ye've DP'd, Shorer.
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silhouette

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Re: "So it's like The Sims?" she asked.
« Reply #69 on: December 14, 2009, 02:29:24 am »

... Damn you FOA...
Damn you...
For making me get an idea for a mega project :(.
Its bad as it will take a heck of a lot of time and probably be wasted...
Oh well it will fit into my super mega project... one that tops all others to date... heheheh...

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moocowmoo

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Re: "So it's like The Sims?" she asked.
« Reply #70 on: December 14, 2009, 02:36:17 am »

I've given up trying to explain DF to people. Usually I'll just give them a link to "Boatmurdered".
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Foa

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Re: "So it's like The Sims?" she asked.
« Reply #71 on: December 14, 2009, 03:02:32 am »

... Damn you FOA...
Damn you...
For making me get an idea for a mega project :( .
Its bad as it will take a heck of a lot of time and probably be wasted...
Oh well it will fit into my super mega project... one that tops all others to date... heheheh...


What'd I do you raped monkey!
Eh, I'll just make purge systems, they are the norm now.

I wonder if Fist Of Armok is Armok's masturbating naughty hand ( It's because of avatar, and caption ) .
« Last Edit: December 14, 2009, 03:17:19 am by Foa »
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Overspeculated

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Re: "So it's like The Sims?" she asked.
« Reply #72 on: December 14, 2009, 06:30:03 am »

Alot of people here claim that the (lack of) graphics are the biggest hurdle for new DF players.

I just don't see that as a very strong dissuading force. The main points are, in my opinion, the unintuitive interface and the lack of content (read story). You say people don't look at gameplay, they do. There is very little good gameplay in DF.
People can get over graphics, unless they are the kind that play Halo or something like that all day. In that case who cares about them? We don't need those people.
However, the interface, when you first see DF, you don't understand it. You don't get anything. When I first played, I thought "Ok, how can I move these little men?" I tried selecting them and everything. Then I decided to stop playing, and took it up again a few months later. When at first you come to DF you just don't get it. It is so alien to any other game, you have to stop looking at it as a game and start looking at it as a simulator to understand it. Then you understand that the interface is merely a means to the an end, it does not have great gameplay, games with great gameplay have intuitive and fun interfaces that make sense, in DF the interface gets the job done. The interface is a vital part of gameplay.

There is also no content (in the context of story elements) or purpose in the game. At first its simple, you need to set up a base and learn how to play, then you can get to the good stuff! Yet the good stuff never comes, there is no story, the siege comes and it seems like some kind of a crappy automated mechanism. Suddenly you feel lonely, you see your dwarves now for what they are: data. Lifeless. Replaceable. There is no goal in playing the fortress. I really like RPG computer games (and with that I mean stuff like Avernum or Baldur's Gate II) so this hit me pretty hard, I like well-constructed and immersing worlds. There is a cold randomly generated world in DF, and it shows.

I'm not saying DF isn't a great game, well, maybe I should say DF is great, because I don't think its really a game. And as such we come to (in my opinion) the greatest problem of DF: false advertising. Everybody says what an awesome game DF is and how somebody should try it to feel the awesomeness. The fact is, most people expect something when it comes to awesome games. DF is straight edge awesome, but it is so different, difficult to describe in words, the only way to understand it is to try it, just like the only way to understand the scope of shittiness that is the Star Wars Holiday Special is to watch it, because it operates on terms outside of our normal thinking/boundaries.

(On a side note, it may seem I'm bashing DF, I'm not. I love it. I'm just approaching it from the view of somebody who doesn't know about it and is confronted by it. I was expecting something completely different when I first started playing DF and was operating it in ways I expected it to work, but I was wrong.)
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Retales

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Re: "So it's like The Sims?" she asked.
« Reply #73 on: December 14, 2009, 07:23:09 am »

I liked the lego analogy from a few pages back. I'd just add that your lego people are basically deaf and blind, so you can't tell them what to do directly; instead you must often trick them into doing what you want. And they're also immensely stupid.

Plus magma.
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Halceon

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Re: "So it's like The Sims?" she asked.
« Reply #74 on: December 14, 2009, 08:14:08 am »


However, the interface, when you first see DF, you don't understand it. You don't get anything. When I first played, I thought "Ok, how can I move these little men?" I tried selecting them and everything. Then I decided to stop playing, and took it up again a few months later. When at first you come to DF you just don't get it. It is so alien to any other game, you have to stop looking at it as a game and start looking at it as a simulator to understand it. Then you understand that the interface is merely a means to the an end, it does not have great gameplay, games with great gameplay have intuitive and fun interfaces that make sense, in DF the interface gets the job done. The interface is a vital part of gameplay.

Nah, you're just not dwarfy enough. I found the interface actually easy to learn and master. (Compare to HeroQuest on the PC - QAOP for movement, ESC for options, ENTER for actions; none of which are mentioned anywhere. Also, there is no exit game function. Still a +diorite coffer+ of fun.) I was somewhat overwhelmed by the sheer amount of options, but i knew it was just a matter of reading through them all. It is my opinion that most gamers today lack the simple skill of learning. Anything that doesn't use the default control scheme is so ungodly perplexing that it should be shunned out of existence.
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