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[Neonivek]

I don't really see why, at all, but okay

One reason could be that without meat you would become Anemic and too tired to be really aggressive. They must have linked Anemia with being non-violent.

[Neruz]

Ethics is, in fact, about what's right and wrong! The ethics behind vegetarianism state that it's wrong to kill thinking animals.

You're going to need to be pretty specific about what constitutes 'thinking'.

[Jude]

Are there any other vegetarian philosophies besides "I don't want to make the poor cows suffer"?

Well, that's a caricature; the idea is the same as boycotting something or just not taking part in it. The way animals are raised is cruel and objectionable so people don't give their money to that system. For me, like I said, I'd be happier just eating free range meat but that takes money and time which I don't have.

Of course, some people probably just don't want to eat cute animals too

[JoshuaFH]

Are there any other vegetarian philosophies besides "I don't want to make the poor cows suffer"?

Yes, there's the version where you don't turn it into a ridiculous-sounding strawman.

Sorry, I guess I was trying to convey a thought without thinking again. I really don't know about vegetarianism because I haven't ever looked into it, and was just trying to ask a question.

[Zironic]

Are there any other vegetarian philosophies besides "I don't want to make the poor cows suffer"?

Well, that's a caricature; the idea is the same as boycotting something or just not taking part in it. The way animals are raised is cruel and objectionable so people don't give their money to that system. For me, like I said, I'd be happier just eating free range meat but that takes money and time which I don't have.

Of course, some people probably just don't want to eat cute animals too

Nature is more cruel than human beings. We at least guarantee these cows a few years before killing them pretty mercifully.

[x2yzh9]

Ethics is, in fact, about what's right and wrong! The ethics behind vegetarianism state that it's wrong to kill thinking animals.

You're going to need to be pretty specific about what constitutes 'thinking'.

COWS MAKING FTL DRIVES.

[Neruz]

Well, that's a caricature; the idea is the same as boycotting something or just not taking part in it. The way animals are raised is cruel and objectionable so people don't give their money to that system. For me, like I said, I'd be happier just eating free range meat but that takes money and time which I don't have.

What, really?

How, exactly?

[G-Flex]

Ethics is, in fact, about what's right and wrong! The ethics behind vegetarianism state that it's wrong to kill thinking animals.

You're going to need to be pretty specific about what constitutes 'thinking'.

It's hard to be specific about that in the first place.

Certain animals can pass pretty much any known test for self-consciousness and the "me"/"you" sort of distinction.

Other animals are less conscious than that, and so forth.

It's hard to really say a lot about any specifics because there are a  whole lot of variables involved when discussing consciousness/intelligence. From the veg*an perspective, a lot of it revolves around the animal's capacity to suffer.

Well, that's a caricature; the idea is the same as boycotting something or just not taking part in it. The way animals are raised is cruel and objectionable so people don't give their money to that system. For me, like I said, I'd be happier just eating free range meat but that takes money and time which I don't have.

What, really?

How, exactly?

You evidently don't know much about factory farming. The conditions tend to be extremely bad. I mean, free-range local-farm type stuff notwithstanding, the way your average farm animal is raised is in fact pretty awful.

Are there any other vegetarian philosophies besides "I don't want to make the poor cows suffer"?

Well, that's a caricature; the idea is the same as boycotting something or just not taking part in it. The way animals are raised is cruel and objectionable so people don't give their money to that system. For me, like I said, I'd be happier just eating free range meat but that takes money and time which I don't have.

Of course, some people probably just don't want to eat cute animals too

Nature is more cruel than human beings. We at least guarantee these cows a few years before killing them pretty mercifully.

This would be more arguable if it weren't for what the conditions are like in typical US factory farming.

And really, it's kind of shifty logic to begin with, the logic seeming to be "if there's any significant chance of something coming to substantial hardship and violent death, it's ethically okay to kill them", which falls apart for animals for the same reasons for which you can't apply it to people.

[LegoLord]

I've actually known many vegetarians.  I never hear about cruel factory farming conditions from them (about half just don't like meat).  Just what are they, exactly?

[Neruz]

It's hard to be specific about that in the first place.

Certain animals can pass pretty much any known test for self-consciousness and the "me"/"you" sort of distinction.

Other animals are less conscious than that, and so forth.

It's hard to really say a lot about any specifics because there are a  whole lot of variables involved when discussing consciousness/intelligence. From the veg*an perspective, a lot of it revolves around the animal's capacity to suffer.

In which case as a means of categorizing goes, it's completely worthless.

You evidently don't know much about factory farming. The conditions tend to be extremely bad. I mean, free-range local-farm type stuff notwithstanding, the way your average farm animal is raised is in fact pretty awful.

Compared to what?

[nil]

In which case as a means of categorizing goes, it's completely worthless.

"Able to suffer" is a pretty clear dividing line for whether something deserves enough more consideration to not be eaten, although personally I prefer moral agency. 

Compared to what?

Animals in the wild?  Particularly in the cases of pigs and chicken (cattle are more likely to spend a fair portion of their lives outdoors).

[G-Flex]

Compared to what?

Do you even have the inclination to do the slightest bit of research for yourself?

Keeping animals in extremely close quarters, sometimes unsanitary conditions, little freedom to do the things they'd normally do, etc. Not to mention particular practices that are cruel (say, debeaking chickens). Does this look normal and healthy to you?

There are obvious problems when you treat animals as industrial products essentially free from any ethical regulation.

If you want to claim that a pig is more satisfied and physically/mentally healthy being in a 2-by-7-foot cell most of its life (in the case of breeding sows) than it would be in some sort of open area (as a local farm is more likely to do), then I'm not really sure what to say to you.

It's not exactly a secret that the meat industry treats their animals a hell of a lot worse than your average locally-run farm.

[Neruz]

I assume you do realise that the animals we farm are so far removed from their original wild ancestors that they aren't even the same species anymore?

"Able to suffer" is a pretty clear dividing line for whether something deserves enough more consideration to not be eaten, although personally I prefer moral agency.

Not really; you need to define 'suffering' now.

If you want to claim that a pig is more satisfied and physically/mentally healthy being in a 2-by-7-foot cell most of its life (in the case of breeding sows) than it would be in some sort of open area (as a local farm is more likely to do), then I'm not really sure what to say to you.

I have no idea; has anyone worked out how to talk to pigs yet?

[G-Flex]

I assume you do realise that the animals we farm are so far removed from their original wild ancestors that they aren't even the same species anymore?

Irrelevant. Domesticated pigs being different from wild hogs doesn't make them some sort of nonliving meat machine.

If you want to claim that a pig is more satisfied and physically/mentally healthy being in a 2-by-7-foot cell most of its life (in the case of breeding sows) than it would be in some sort of open area (as a local farm is more likely to do), then I'm not really sure what to say to you.

I have no idea; has anyone worked out how to talk to pigs yet?

You can tell how healthy an animal is physically without talking to it, and psychology/social health exists for animals too. You don't have to be able to ask it "so, how ya feeling?" in order to know that certain treatments are simply unhealthy in general. You are going against conventional science by attempting to refute this.

[Realmfighter]

What does the physiological heath of a pig matter? Its a pig. If its intended for food its going to live for a year at the max.