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[Jude]

Once I have money I'd like to eat local meat only if possible, preferably where you can go to the farm and see the animals wandering around. If you're concerned about cruelty to animals that's about the best way to go. Of course, hunted meat would be most ethical, but free-range is next best.

Unfortunately, eating local is damn expensive and takes a lot of effort.

[DJ]

I don't care so much for ethical concerns, I prefer free range because it's by far the tastiest.

[Servu]

Never really eaten vegetables or fruits (Although my parents sure used to try to get me to.) Mostly since pretty much all fruit and many veggies available in Finland have spent the last two months rotting in a container ship (though I have only heard stories about fresh fruit). Vegetables I just can't stomach, with the exception of grain products and potatoes. I really like boiled new potatoes, with the skin on of course. Great with a nice juicy stake...
What comes to my regular diet, about 70% of it is instant noodles with the cheapest processed meat on the side. (Though I wouldn't call myself a poor person since food is just really, really expensive here)

Considering animal ethics and vegetarism/veganism: My family comes from a rular area and as a kid I spent time around the family cattle farm (ranch?) that my uncle currently runs. Furthermore my grandfather hunts regularly (and brings us some mighty good moose stakes every once in a while) so I was actually quite shocked when I went to elementary school and learned about people who don't eat meat at all. Cattle suffering under captivity never really crossed my mind; I often saw the critters graze around in the farm and they always seemed quite pleased about the state of affairs, and what comes to hunting, I just have always thought of it as absolutely awesome.

[G-Flex]

Well, the ethical complaints are more than about the suffering of the animals while they're alive. There's also a statement made to the effect of "don't kill living, thinking creatures if it's not necessary".

[Neruz]

So then we should probably be prosecuting Wolves for unethical conduct when they disembowel a deer and start eating it's entrails while it's still alive.

[Realmfighter]

So then we should probably be prosecuting Wolves for unethical conduct when they disembowel a deer and start eating it's entrails while it's still alive.

Wolfs do not understand that this is unethical, because they are wolfs and do not have ethics.

[Cthulhu]

Ethics, shmethics, the wolf is smarter than the deer and needs it to survive.  The wolf kills the deer and eats it.  Exactly the same was what humans do.  We're smarter than the animals and we need to eat them to survive (Well, we don't technically, but you know what I mean), so we kill and eat them.  It is their lot in life as prey animals.

[Neruz]

So then we should probably be prosecuting Wolves for unethical conduct when they disembowel a deer and start eating it's entrails while it's still alive.

Wolfs do not understand that this is unethical, because they are wolfs and do not have ethics.

So ethics apply to people interacting with animals, but not animals interacting with people?

This seems somewhat contradictory.

[Realmfighter]

Ethics, shmethics, the wolf is smarter than the deer and needs it to survive.  The wolf kills the deer and eats it.  Exactly the same was what humans do.  We're smarter than the animals and we need to eat them to survive (Well, we don't technically, but you know what I mean), so we kill and eat them.  It is their lot in life as prey animals.

I wasn't saying it was wrong, i was saying that they can't be changed for being unethical.

So ethics apply to people interacting with animals, but not animals interacting with people?

This seems somewhat contradictory.

We kill animals that attack humans, as they have proven themselves dangerous to people. Isn't this enough?

[Neonivek]

I wonder if some vegans are against feeing zoo animals meat.

[G-Flex]

So then we should probably be prosecuting Wolves for unethical conduct when they disembowel a deer and start eating it's entrails while it's still alive.

Wolves in the wild eat meat because they need to eat meat to survive. They're also freaking wolves and don't understand ethics to begin with. Christ, the inability to comprehend ethics is even taken into consideration in human courts (see: insanity defenses, trying someone as a minor), never mind wolves.


Really, you're being intentionally obtuse. I said "if it's not necessary". None of the vegetarians/vegans I've known would have a problem with people eating meat if having a vegetarian/vegan diet were actually implausible for them. It's not like they're going to tell dudes living in poverty or in some underdeveloped countries to do it. It's an ethic of luxury, as most of them are if you really get down to it.

[Neruz]

My point is that saying it is 'unethical' to eat animals and animal products means that the term 'ethics' has either been bastardized beyond belief, or is being incorrectly applied.


Ethics are a system of morals, Morals are the principles of what is "Right" and what is "Wrong". Suggesting that it is "Wrong" to eat animals and animal products is either grounds for a serious reeducation on the term, or grounds for admittance into a mental hospital.

[JoshuaFH]

Are there any other vegetarian philosophies besides "I don't want to make the poor cows suffer"?

[Neonivek]

Well a long time ago there was the belief that meat was linked to aggression.

[G-Flex]

I don't really see why, at all, but okay.


Ethics is, in fact, about what's right and wrong! The ethics behind vegetarianism state that it's wrong to kill thinking animals.

Of course, if you need to in order to survive, that's different! Self-preservation tends to override other morals on a fairly daily basis anyway; people do things to survive that they otherwise wouldn't do.

Are there any other vegetarian philosophies besides "I don't want to make the poor cows suffer"?

Yes, there's the version where you don't turn it into a ridiculous-sounding strawman.