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[Wiles]

Which part? Being tall makes you more susceptible to heart disease, or being tall has a lot of advantages?

As for height being related to diet, I think there's something to it. I think it has more to do with dairy products than meat, though, because IIRC dairy products are the best source of calcium which is needed for bone growth. I googled for a dairy consumption per country chart, but I couldn't find one to see if it's similar to the human height per country chart that's on Wikipedia.

I'm not entirely convinced about the relation between height and dairy products. I'm sure diet plays a role, but I don't think it is a singular, specific food. It also has a lot to do with your family history. I'm fairly tall, but I detested dairy products as a child and developed an allergy to it as a teen. And as far as milk goes, I don't think it is as vital as the dairy industry would lead people to believe. It is one of the top food allergies, Cassein, the protein in cow's milk is hard for the body to digest. Also there has also been speculation about milk spreading infection among humans (Mycobacterium avium subspecies paratuberculosis causes Johne's disease in cows and is thought to play a part in Crohn's disease in humans).

[G-Flex]

Does that last bit particularly matter when the dairy is pasteurized, though?

So even if we assume that the claim is true, and that the Japanese became healthier after eating more Western food, and even if we conclude that it's due to the presence of more meat, and even if we jump to FURTHER conclusions and say that the increase of height means they're healthier (ignoring other effects, like potentially higher incidence of heart disease)

Taller people tend to have more heart problems because their hearts have a harder job. I still prefer to be as tall as I am (6'5") to being a midget and living 5-6 years longer. Being tall has a lot of advantages in life, not the least of which is more success with women.

You can be shorter than 6'5" and not be a midget. I know people shorter than you who have problem with things being designed for people shorter than them.

I guess if you're willing to sacrifice years of your life and some of your health later on in life in order to moderately increase your chances of getting laid now (which isn't exactly difficult in the first place, considering women these days are understood to have sex drives too), then... sure?


Also, the heart disease isn't necessarily just because of height; it could easily be (and in this case, probably is) caused in part by the diet itself.

[Neruz]

I guess if you're willing to sacrifice years of your life and some of your health later on in life in order to moderately increase your chances of getting laid now (which isn't exactly difficult in the first place, considering women these days are understood to have sex drives too), then... sure?

Considering that is exactly what our genes want us to do and have been evolving us to do for several billion years now, lets go for it guys!

[G-Flex]

That's an extremely flawed understanding of evolution. If that's what our genes "wanted us to do", we'd die off the instant we're no longer sexually viable.


Humans are a social species. Part of our genes surviving is us surviving and contributing to society. Part of this is having good health.

Also, contributing to society doesn't necessarily mean "working a day job", either; healthy old people are good to have around for other reasons, like the experience they've had, representation of a different generation, and what they can offer to the younger generations. Things like grandparents are good to have around, and there's a reason the whole "respect your elders" thing is pretty universal.


Besides, our genes don't "want" anything; they just get selected by natural processes based on how well they keep themselves around. Part of human genes keeping themselves around is contributing to a well-functioning human society, not just an individual who can physically reproduce.

[Neruz]

Cept from an evolution standpoint, we don't need to live for more than about ~40 years. By that time the next generation has reached adulthood and is ready to take over.

All our genes are interested in is reproducing. That's it.

[Neonivek]

an extremely flawed understanding of evolution

A lot of people understand evolution as some sort of weird intelligent process on behalf of the genes. The genes somehow sense what is needed and alter themselves to compensate.

The reality is that Evolution is a series of random mutations and that hopefully one of those will be helpful

[G-Flex]

Cept from an evolution standpoint, we don't need to live for more than about ~40 years. By that time the next generation has reached adulthood and is ready to take over.

All our genes are interested in is reproducing. That's it.

You ignored my entire post. Congratulations.

As I said, gene survival in social animals (like humans) is largely achieved by contributing to a functioning society.

Genes that help you live and stay healthy longer help you work longer, learn longer, gain more experience in life and whatever you do/study, and act as an elder for younger generations. This is good for society and those who live within it, and therefore is good for the genes. If this were not true, complex social behavior wouldn't have evolved in the first place.


In other words, yes, genes survive primarily by reproduction, but they need THOSE offspring to thrive and compete as well, and a better-working social structure is good for that. This is evidenced by the fact that we even have one! Complex social behavior evolves in animals because it affords protection to the individuals and therefore to the continued survival of the group, and thereby those genes as well.


Sorry if I'm repeating myself, but since you don't seem to be reading what I say, I feel the need.

[Neruz]

You ignored my entire post. Congratulations.

Why thank you.

[JoshuaFH]

Ha! Meat > Vegetarianism > Veganism > Maddox > Diet > Cultural Dietary Deficiencies? > Evolution!

It all makes sense.

[Neonivek]

Ha! Meat > Vegetarianism > Veganism > Maddox > Diet > Cultural Dietary Deficiencies? > Evolution!

It all makes sense.

This sums up what this thread devolved into so well it could be used as a synopsis.

[Cthulhu]

I think we've just about concluded this argument.  Let's all have a smoke, shall we?

[Footkerchief]

e: nm

[DJ]

I guess if you're willing to sacrifice years of your life and some of your health later on in life in order to moderately increase your chances of getting laid now (which isn't exactly difficult in the first place, considering women these days are understood to have sex drives too), then... sure?

It's not just success with women. Taller people tend to have higher wages, get promoted more easily, are less likely to be targeted by muggers and generally get a bit of bonus respect from everyone without having to do anything.

[Neonivek]

I guess if you're willing to sacrifice years of your life and some of your health later on in life in order to moderately increase your chances of getting laid now (which isn't exactly difficult in the first place, considering women these days are understood to have sex drives too), then... sure?

It's not just success with women. Taller people tend to have higher wages, get promoted more easily, are less likely to be targeted by muggers and generally get a bit of bonus respect from everyone without having to do anything.

Yep for the most part it is called the "Halo Effect" (though I am sure more is at work here. For example, for most of your life you were told to listen to people taller then you)

Namely people who see tall people start to associate them with possitive traits. It is the same reason why Handsom Criminals get lighter punishments then ugly criminals.

[G-Flex]

Those things are certainly true.

... On the other hand, we were talking about tallness as a result of environment, not of genetics, making any talk of evolution based on it kind of moot.