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[Neruz]

Why do people insist that there is such thing as objective morals? Morals are pretty much just a tool for keeping a society from falling apart. They're useful because they make us all better off. I don't see how would improvement of life conditions for animals make us any better off.

Because people like to think that there is some inherant force in the universe of 'good' and 'evil', it helps them sleep better at night if they don't realise that the universe is impossibly gigantic and doesn't give a damn if this entire planet explodes and every single cellular organism dies in an orgy of pain and fire.

Basically, you're starting to steer into religion territory here.

[nil]

Human beings don't need any inherent forces to have good and evil; they can make it themselves.  Objectivist ethics are for objects.

[DJ]

And we currently have ethics where it's not wrong to exploit animals.

[Neruz]

And it's also wise to keep in mind that the vast majority of the world do not give a damn if the chickens are raised in cages and have their beaks cut off.

[Maggarg - Eater of chicke]

Happy animals taste better.

[Jude]

Are there any other vegetarian philosophies besides "I don't want to make the poor cows suffer"?

Well, that's a caricature; the idea is the same as boycotting something or just not taking part in it. The way animals are raised is cruel and objectionable so people don't give their money to that system. For me, like I said, I'd be happier just eating free range meat but that takes money and time which I don't have.

Of course, some people probably just don't want to eat cute animals too

Nature is more cruel than human beings.

OK, in some cases that's true. NOT in this one. Clearly you have no idea of the way animals are raised for meat. THEY LIVE IN BOXES. They never see the outside. They're packed into gigantic warehouses and they never move. That's why people object to eating mass-produced meat, not that they're queasy about the idea of killing animals (which, incidentally, we DO have human techniques of doing)

[Maggarg - Eater of chicke]

I don't like the idea of boxed up animals, but if I'm really hungry I don't really give a damn.

[Neruz]

Are there any other vegetarian philosophies besides "I don't want to make the poor cows suffer"?

Well, that's a caricature; the idea is the same as boycotting something or just not taking part in it. The way animals are raised is cruel and objectionable so people don't give their money to that system. For me, like I said, I'd be happier just eating free range meat but that takes money and time which I don't have.

Of course, some people probably just don't want to eat cute animals too

Nature is more cruel than human beings.

OK, in some cases that's true. NOT in this one. Clearly you have no idea of the way animals are raised for meat. THEY LIVE IN BOXES. They never see the outside. They're packed into gigantic warehouses and they never move. That's why people object to eating mass-produced meat, not that they're queasy about the idea of killing animals (which, incidentally, we DO have human techniques of doing)

I'm not sure if that's better or worse than living in constant fear that the bush over there is about to disgorge a lion.

[Nadaka]

Are there any other vegetarian philosophies besides "I don't want to make the poor cows suffer"?

Well, that's a caricature; the idea is the same as boycotting something or just not taking part in it. The way animals are raised is cruel and objectionable so people don't give their money to that system. For me, like I said, I'd be happier just eating free range meat but that takes money and time which I don't have.

Of course, some people probably just don't want to eat cute animals too

Nature is more cruel than human beings.

OK, in some cases that's true. NOT in this one. Clearly you have no idea of the way animals are raised for meat. THEY LIVE IN BOXES. They never see the outside. They're packed into gigantic warehouses and they never move. That's why people object to eating mass-produced meat, not that they're queasy about the idea of killing animals (which, incidentally, we DO have human techniques of doing)

This is why you should eat veal, and other young animals. it saves them from a lifetime of suffering. Its merciful.

[LegoLord]

I think it's worth noting that if you have a large amount (as much as a industrial-level meat provider would) of chickens & roosters in one spot, they get nasty towards each other.  Cutting beaks can be a mercy to them, so that they don't mangle each other.

[G-Flex]

I think it's worth noting that if you have a large amount (as much as a industrial-level meat provider would) of chickens & roosters in one spot, they get nasty towards each other.  Cutting beaks can be a mercy to them, so that they don't mangle each other.

Yeah, but that's also just further evidence that keeping a huge amount of chickens and roosters in an enclosed space is significantly bad for them in the first place. So really, in this case, the de-beaking is only "merciful" in the sense that it prevents a bad situation that you created yourself.

[Neonivek]

Yep in a similar way that Cutting the hands off two people your forcing to kill eachother is an act of mercy

[LegoLord]

Well, an industry could have them free-range, but that'd require that they buy massive areas of land or build massive multi-floor buildings.  The extra cost of doing so could have all sorts of unwanted side-effects, such as increase in the price of chicken meat.

[nil]

No worries, though.  In twenty years we'll all be eating vat meat anyway.

[Neonivek]

No worries, though.  In twenty years we'll all be eating vat meat anyway.

Or bug meat. It is cheap and healthy!