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[Neruz]

For instance: When it's possible for a bar/restaurant to disallow smoking or allow it, as it chooses, how many smoking-banned bars/restaurants do you actually see?

Most of them actually; generally they provide a small outdoor area for smoking, and ban it everywhere else.

Really? Weird. When I was a kid, it was never like that, and it was irritating. By "kid" I mean until relatively recent years, actually.

I am in Australia, wheras i believe you are an American, that may be the difference.

I think atomicwinter's just saying that rights are defined by people and aren't divinely handed down or anything like that; we decide which rights people should have based on our system of ethics and blah blah blah.

Well duh.

[G-Flex]

Okay, yeah, forgot to account for national differences there. Kind of presumptuous of me.

[Neruz]

But extremely American, and not even remotely unexpected.

[Strife26]

My 13.5 cents, by the way, is that private companies should have every right to determine if smoking is allowed on their premise. No one is forced to go to Smoking King over McLiberal for their burger. However, public amenities do have some responsibility to provide for the general health, so I'd have little problem with smoking not being allowed on your bus or in your courtroom. At the same time, I've always found the "You must be X feet away from the door to smoke" rules somewhat punitive (and silly, to the point where my preferred late-night coffee hangout had to tape down the distance so they'd quite getting bugged about it. I don't think that smoke hangs out long in open spaces.

[G-Flex]

But extremely American, and not even remotely unexpected.

I apologized, you don't have to treat me like a stereotypical cock because of it. Most of the people I talk to aren't even from the US; I'm used to having to make distinctions, and usually I'm the one telling people not to be ethnocentric. Try not to make sweeping judgements about my character based on stereotypes because of a single slip-up, please. I wouldn't do that to you.

[Neruz]

But extremely American, and not even remotely unexpected.

I apologized, you don't have to treat me like a stereotypical cock because of it. Most of the people I talk to aren't even from the US; I'm used to having to make distinctions, and usually I'm the one telling people not to be ethnocentric. Try not to make sweeping judgements about my character based on stereotypes because of a single slip-up, please. I wouldn't do that to you.

I'm sorry; i'm not treating you like a stereotypical cock, i'm treating you as i treat Americans, based on what i have come to expect.

And my experience tells me that most Americans routinely forget that the rest of the world exists. It might not be nice, but it appears to be a fact held up by fairly solid experimental evidence.

[G-Flex]

Treating a member of an extremely diverse group as if they are all some bizarre amalgamation of the most blatant ones you've met in the past is pretty much how stereotyping works.

There's also the fact that the Americans you're likely to remember are the ones who make it obvious, who will tend to be the ones who aren't exactly the most culturally-knowledgeable, and therefore will kind of skew your opinions anyway.


Really though, I live in the US and most of the people I actually associate with here aren't like that very much at all. I'm aware that a lot of us are, and it pisses me off too, living here and all, but I don't really think it's fair to prejudge someone based on statistically-skewed expectations of some particular group they belong to.

Although I can understand how you got that impression from what I said earlier.

[Strife26]

Cough Cough
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main.MisplacedNationalism

[Neruz]

G-Flex, your argument might sound substantially more convincing if not for two factors;

A: I did actually do some numbers about two years back
B: You only just did it a few posts ago.


Yes, i know, you're getting all upset about the stereotyping, boo hoo. The thing about stereotypes is that they often turn out to be correct; that's why they exist. Simply because a minority does not conform to a stereotype does not in any way make the stereotype less accurate. My experience has shown that a majority of Americans tend to forget that countries other than America exist, ergo i assume that a given American is more likely to act like this than not unless proven otherwise.

We call this amazing concept 'statistics'.

[ChairmanPoo]

I think such generalizations are unfair. When you come down to it, most people in any country you care to name are narrow-minded and provincian.

[thobal]

I just read the first page of this topic and it made me wish I could jump into a time machine and kick myself in the ass when I started smoking.

Wow, it sucks.

[ChairmanPoo]

...actually.... nevermind

[Neruz]

I think such generalizations are unfair.

Life is unfair, i suggest you be extremely grateful for it.

When you come down to it, most people in any country you care to name are narrow-minded and provincian.

Probably; by default i assume anyone i meet is an idiot until proven otherwise.



And yes thobal; smoking is a surprisingly effective way to very slowly and painfully kill yourself without realising it.

[ChairmanPoo]

that last post was not much of a reply, you know.

[Strife26]

G-Flex, your argument might sound substantially more convincing if not for two factors;

A: I did actually do some numbers about two years back
B: You only just did it a few posts ago.


Yes, i know, you're getting all upset about the stereotyping, boo hoo. The thing about stereotypes is that they often turn out to be correct; that's why they exist. Simply because a minority does not conform to a stereotype does not in any way make the stereotype less accurate. My experience has shown that a majority of Americans tend to forget that countries other than America exist, ergo i assume that a given American is more likely to act like this than not unless proven otherwise.

We call this amazing concept 'statistics'.

Calling Bullshit now.

Statistics suck.
1) You find me an unbiased statistical survey, and I'll find proof that we're in the matrix.
2) Have you done statisic's work on this board? Cuz I will bet you the entire value of my estate that the makeup of American Bayers is a hell and a half lot different than anywhere else (actually, you can replace Bayers with anything you want, see 3)
3) America is a big place. Melting pot, sure, but there is so much differentiation between this place that your sterotype is useless. I've been chatting with random people on Mystery Google, and I've gotten people from California, Texas, and the East Coast. They all had very different opinions on stuff. Sterotyping America is like generalizing a pack of paint. If you combine them all, and then divide, you'll ALWAYS get brown. There may be one or two shades of brown, how do you extend that to everything else?
4) You fail to realize that people talk about things they are knowledgeable about. The "let's grab those three people off the street" survey is going to hit up people who would NEVER presume that they could talk knowledgeably about other countries.

5) The entire issue is really pointless. G-Flex made a comment that applies differently from his piece of America (BTW, smoking regulation is a city or state issue, so even talking about America fails) and Neruz got annoyed at it. End.



And by the way, from my experience (before Fargo banned smoking from everywhere except one place that continues to fight), places that were mostly bars tended to be smoking and places where kids frequented were tobacco free.


Life is unfair, get used to it? Don't make me laugh. That is a useless blank-check justification.

Oh, I'm going to hit you with this baseball (or, as long as we're being international, cricket) bat (better yet) solid object. Don't worry. Though. Life is unfair.