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[Jude]

I smoke once in a while. And I'm not going to take any of you guys' whining about your "right to breathe" seriously until you:

-stop driving a car
-stop buying mass-produced goods
-stop eating meat except local

...and that's just a start. Tobacco smoking is a drop in the ocean of air pollution. It is NOT the reason why air quality is shit or the cause of acid rain.

AND... FULL CIRCLE!


Please refer to page #1 and read the thread again. Because otherwise this will begin to resemble Groundhog Day

You're welcome to read all 15 pages if you want and  then give me the digest version...I'm going to work, myself

[ChairmanPoo]

yeah well.... you are welcome to have the same argument N times if you feel like it

[Tack]

Mmm... This thread is going nowhere now.

[Sergius]

I'm going to stop shooting at random passers-by when the world governments decide to stop killing each other in wars! I'm going to stop shoving greasy burgers down other people's throats when everyone converts to veganism!

But you're not gonna stop driving a car when we stop smoking.

Of course not, because my example was not valid as it was intentionally idiotic, while the smoking / car case is unintentionally idiotic. But your reply makes a few things clear now, since you believed that shooting people randomly until the governments stop wars is reasonable.

[codezero]

I don't think the government is being reasonable.

[Aqizzar]

I'm going to stop shooting at random passers-by when the world governments decide to stop killing each other in wars! I'm going to stop shoving greasy burgers down other people's throats when everyone converts to veganism!

But you're not gonna stop driving a car when we stop smoking.

Of course not, because my example was not valid as it was intentionally idiotic, while the smoking / car case is unintentionally idiotic. But your reply makes a few things clear now, since you believed that shooting people randomly until the governments stop wars is reasonable.

Does the term "nuance" mean nothing to you?  Wildly different scenarios do in fact merit treating functionally similar issues with different answers.

But of course, if you're going to invent a purposefully idiotic example, then claim that a reasonable response is proof that the person you're arguing with believes your outrageous example, and then grant the other person none of the post-facto sophistication of your argument, then you're probably not going to listen to any differing opinion or take the time to hash specific answers to specific cases.

[Reasonableman]

I've found that analogy (particularly outlandish analogy) in argument is akin to condescension, if not outright condescending. It obfuscates the original argument more than it enlightens. Particularly for someone just hopping in.

Also I'm fairly sure that somewhere, someone is artificially lengthening the argument, because any and all useful, factual information about smoking should've been used up at least five pages ago.

[Maggarg - Eater of chicke]

Also I'm fairly sure that somewhere, someone is artificially lengthening the argument,

You can probably find pills for it somewhere.

[Neruz]

Also, cars are only vital to US-ians and people who refuse to move closer to their work, or change their work closer to where they live. It's a commodity that a large part of the world can do without, so why can't you?

Um. What?


Yes i shall just magically magic up a house that is right next to my place of work and will not cost me hundreds of thousands of dollars by the time i finish all the crap related to selling my previous house and moving everything to my new house. And then repeating this excersize in 3 years when my job changes..

This sounds entirely reasonable and a perfect comparison to a recreational drug habit.

[Alexhans]

are you guys still trying to argue with stubborn, defensive, irrational smokers?   

This might take forever...

Jude is a nice example... That kind of attitudes from people create violence...

[zchris13]

The worst part of smoking is the tar.  It wouldn't be nearly as deadly if it were not for the tar.  Still deadly as anything, though.

[G-Flex]

That's because "tar" isn't a specific compound; it's a general term for the noncombusted by-products. So you wouldn't be removing one specific thing, you'd be removing basically any residue at all except for maybe a few specifics.

Also, cars are only vital to US-ians and people who refuse to move closer to their work, or change their work closer to where they live. It's a commodity that a large part of the world can do without, so why can't you?

Moving closer to work/giving up your job in an attempt to find one closer to you is not always reasonable or feasible at all.

A lot of places don't have very good public transportation (which uses gasoline anyway, albeit less), and the way modern city planning tends to work, the jobs are far from where people live almost by design. You can't just *poof* and bring work home to you or bring yourself closer to work.

Yes, it's a good idea to use public transit, walk, ride a bike, whatever's most reasonable where you live. What's most reasonable is highly variable, and sometimes there aren't many options.

[Alexhans]

I ride a bike everywhere (work, college, other places)... and I gotta tell you... Smoke from some vehicles (mainly old buses) kills me and I try to avoid them like hell.

There's a total lack of control from the goverment in enviromental issues (in Argentina).  The corruption in that department is terrible and there's been numerous scandals with no consequences.

[zchris13]

I ride a bike everywhere (work, college, other places)... and I gotta tell you... Smoke from some vehicles (mainly old buses) kills me and I try to avoid them like hell.

There's a total lack of control from the goverment in enviromental issues (in Argentina).  The corruption in that department is terrible and there's been numerous scandals with no consequences.

Your corruption is so bad, it's corrupting MY government.  (reference to one governor of SC)

[Jude]

I've found that analogy (particularly outlandish analogy) in argument is akin to condescension, if not outright condescending. It obfuscates the original argument more than it enlightens. Particularly for someone just hopping in.

It's just a question of whether the analogy's good or not. People often see an analogy used, and immediately start picking out all the dissimilarities between the two things being analogized. That's missing the point; the point is that the things are alike IN THE WAYS RELEVANT TO THE DISCUSSION. Not that they're alike in all ways. If they are dissimilar in important ways that are relevant, then it makes sense to pick at those things; if not you're just splitting hairs and ignoring valid arguments.

re you guys still trying to argue with stubborn, defensive, irrational smokers?   

This might take forever...

Jude is a nice example... That kind of attitudes from people create violence...

Wtf are you talking about?