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[toker606]

I'm in the middle of building a gigantic golden warhammer in my fortress' courtyard for the hell of it, and I was wondering if it's possible to support (hold up) built walls from above? Basically if I build several z levels of walls are they solidly connected or do they just sit on top of each other? Here is the basic design of the hammer, notice where the hammerheads flare out at the bottom -

  |----\ |----|  /----|
  |       -|----|-       |
  |        |----|         |
  |       -|----|-       |
  |----/ |----|  \----|  <----this level here
           |----|
           |----|
           |----|
           |----|
           |----|
           |----|
           |----|
           |----|
           |----|
           |----|

I know how I'd be able to build it, just have the entire layer fixed to the main structure, build the level above and then remove the connecting walls, but would it stay up? If not, is there anyway I  can go about making such a structure?

[wagawaga]

afaik it will stay up, the cave-in logic can lead to some unnaturally results, as there only needs to be 1 tile of connection to the land to stay up.

[toker606]

afaik it will stay up, the cave-in logic can lead to some unnaturally results, as there only needs to be 1 tile of connection to the land to stay up.

But will it work with a connection from above? On the bottom z level of the hammerheads there will be no connection the shaft of the hammer.

[blue emu]

Any orthogonal connection will support... north, south, east, west, up or down... but NOT diagonally.

You could have the whole thing hanging down from a single support, if you wanted to.

I'm planning to use a giant hammer as a defense against sieges... "The Hammer of Armok", with its single support released by pulling a lever. Directly underneath it will be an inlaid mosiac spelling out "Stand Here".

I would fill it with Magma if there was any on my map... there isn't, so I'm filling it with Rhesus Macaques.

[Starver]

The only problem I foresee, unless you build and then remove the layer(s) that would have connected the base to the ground, is actually constructing it.

You could send out bridges from a (temporary) scaffold to build a set of walls and access floors at an arbitrary Z-level, then build walls at the Z-1 from the bridge, and so on down to Z-n, 'm' levels above the ground, but it'd probably be easier to build from the ground, with endo-/exo-skeletal access infrastructure, linking to the edge support at your upper connection point, then 'retreat' down, removing whatever you don't want to remain, including the entire [edited-in-'cos-I-prematurely posted: "...unwanted ground-to-intended-posterior support structure".]

(Unless, and I might be wrong in thinking you can't, you can construct an up or up/down stairs on Z-1 while standing on some down-accessing other stairs on Z=0.  You can /dig/ them, but I don't think you can construct, the same way as you can construct a Z+1 down or up/down stairway from an up-accessing one.  Also possibly at issue, removing, the Z-1 stairwell items from the Z.)

[toker606]

Any orthogonal connection will support... north, south, east, west, up or down... but NOT diagonally.

You could have the whole thing hanging down from a single support, if you wanted to.

I'm planning to use a giant hammer as a defense against sieges... "The Hammer of Armok", with its single support released by pulling a lever. Directly underneath it will be an inlaid mosiac spelling out "Stand Here".

I would fill it with Magma if there was any on my map... there isn't, so I'm filling it with Rhesus Macaques.

That's perfect then, Thanks. Also, I think I have a new quote

The only problem I foresee, unless you build and then remove the layer(s) that would have connected the base to the ground, is actually constructing it.

You could send out bridges from a (temporary) scaffold to build a set of walls and access floors at an arbitrary Z-level, then build walls at the Z-1 from the bridge, and so on down to Z-n, 'm' levels above the ground, but it'd probably be easier to build from the ground, with endo-/exo-skeletal access infrastructure, linking to the edge support at your upper connection point, then 'retreat' down, removing whatever you don't want to remain, including the entire [edited-in-'cos-I-prematurely posted: "...unwanted ground-to-intended-posterior support structure".]

(Unless, and I might be wrong in thinking you can't, you can construct an up or up/down stairs on Z-1 while standing on some down-accessing other stairs on Z=0.  You can /dig/ them, but I don't think you can construct, the same way as you can construct a Z+1 down or up/down stairway from an up-accessing one.  Also possibly at issue, removing, the Z-1 stairwell items from the Z.)

I think I'm okay for construction, I'm putting a sprial staircase up the centre of the shaft as part of the design which is allowing me to build the tower portion without outside supports, once I get to the hammer heads I can build rows of flooring out from the tower and work them from the inside out, then just remove the old connecting walls where the bottom of the heads flare out from the shaft.

[slink]

You can build some really strange things in DF.  I have arched roofs over the courtyards of the fortress I am currently playing.  They are constructed by repeating layers of the following.

|\_ 

where

_ is the top of a wall
\ is a ramp built while standing on top of the wall
| is a wall built behind the ramp while standing on the ramp

| becomes _ for the next layer up

Honestly, I think this entire thing should collapse to the ground like one of those old-fashoined travel glasses that collapsed into concentric rings.  Futhermore, you shouldn't be able to build a wall through the ramp you are standing on.  However, it looks neat and I accept whatever advantages the program wants to give me.   

[hitto]

nice one, slink! How pyramidal does it look in a visualizer?

[slink]

Roughly like a step pyramid, IMO.

Corner slope:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Construction detail:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[MrFake]

Any orthogonal connection will support... north, south, east, west, up or down... but NOT diagonally.

Yes diagonally, but only a vertical diagonal: north up, north down, south up, south down, etc.  Only horizontal diagonals do not provide support.

Code: [Select]

O.  Z+2
.O  Z+1

O - wall
. - empty space

"Support" is reduced to connections.  A single connection is enough to hold up any number of connected constructions (The same is true for machines, by the way).

[some good stuff on ramps]

Just remember this simple rule: A ramp behaves like a floor, even acting as support, but if there is a wall adjacent to it, a dwarf can use the ramp to climb up onto the wall or climb down from the wall.  So really, a ramp is more like a floor with a ladder, though for appearance sake it looks like a ramp.  Of course, there are exceptions and tricks, but that's the basic rule.

[Starver]

You could send out bridges from a (temporary) scaffold to build a set of walls and access floors at an arbitrary Z-level, then build walls at the Z-1 from the bridge, [...]

Belated correction to my own message, don't try to build walls/etc off the end of a bridge.  I meant off of a bridging set of floors, or even the actual 'attachment point'.

But everyone knows you shouldn't do what it appeared I was saying, obviously.  That's why no-one picked me up on it!

(Writing this reply so that newbies won't get misguided...  Although half the fun is learning from experience.  Naw, I'll still post this.  There's plenty more experience to learn from!)