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[Leonidas]

I'm preparing a group of marksdwarves to eventually face some fireball-throwing enemies.  My marksdwarves will stand behind fortifications, so there's no chance of them being in melee.

I have a large but finite supply of steel from invader armor, and effectively infinite hematite (no flux).  If I have to choose, which of these will work better for my marksdwarves:

1) put them in steel armor, firing iron bolts, or
2) put them in iron armor, firing steel bolts?

To put the question differently, does armor really help protect against fireballs?

[eerr]

You need shields. The largest metal shield you can make, and as much shield training as possible.

Armour doesn't help vs fireballs.

Metal type doesn't boost block chance.


If possible, forget the armour, shields and marskdwarves and send a wrestler ambush around the corner.

[Derakon]

What kind of enemies are these? If they're just fire imps, find some chump peasants, draft them, and send them into melee. They'll actually probably all survive. If we're talking something like the nastier Better Goblins mods, then that won't work of course.

Eerr is right in that having shields will really help your dwarves out. Shields can block damn near anything. Training your dwarves up in wrestling will also give them a better shot at survival, since it improves their chance to dodge. Finally, putting them behind fortifications is good, but if you can, make certain that the enemy can't get close to the fortifications either. The difficulty of shooting through fortifications increases as the unit gets further from them, so your dwarves right next to them have no trouble...but enemies right next to them have no trouble either.

As far as materials are concerned, I'd go with the steel armor just because spending steel on something that inherently gets used up rankles a bit. Plus, with the way bolts work right now, you're unlikely to need the extra killing power of steel unless your enemies are ridiculously beefy.

[Leonidas]

I'm going after my first HFS.  I want to kill them entirely with weapons.  Melee is apparently useless against them, so it's gotta be marksdwarves.  So they can't use shields, and I can design the fortifications just fine.

I understand that only the shield and wrestling skill prevent the dwarf from being hit.  Let's just assume that the dwarf is hit.  My question is about the damage. 

In normal combat, armor simply subtracts from damage.  In some cases, with good materials and high quality, the armor completely eliminates the damage.

Now consider the fireball.  I assume that it does direct damage, and that it also has a chance to catch things on fire.  I assume that armor reduces the direct damage from the fireball.  What I'm asking is whether the chance to be set on fire is tied to the damage (which means that armor helps), or whether fire follows automatically from being hit (which means that armor does not help).

Put differently, suppose that you have a marksdwarf in a shootout across a chasm with something that throws fireballs.  Is there any difference to his survivability between plain leather armor and full masterwork adamantium armor?

[Tcei]

Main difference between leather and anmantium, is that leather will catch on fire, metal armor wont. Least thats the way its working out for my flaming champion in my current fort.

[slink]

Marksdwarves can use shields.

[Derakon]

Keep in mind that HFS starts stealthed. You'll need a spotter in melee range before your dwarves will start shooting at anything. You could accomplish this with animals, but they'll die fast -- probably you'll only spot one of the demons before the pet croaks it, and the others will remain stealthed. And the two types of demons that fling fireballs also can fly, so you can't drop more animals in after opening the pits.

Melee does work against HFS; it's just risky. The main problem appears to be keeping your dwarves in the fight -- as soon as they get slightly bruised from the fire, they'll try to run off to rest. Even if they heal three steps later that's extra time for the demons to get free hits in.

But did you expect this to be easy?

[Firnagzen]

Marksdwarves can use shields.

Bucklers only.

[martinuzz]

Marksdwarves can use shields also.
I usually train my marksdwarves up in wrestling first, then hammering (in melee the crossbow is used with hammer skill). Also equip them with shields and armor during that training, so they skill up in that. I stop training both wrestling and hammer skills before the dwarf hits elite, because I like seeing some light green elite marksdwarves before they turn champion.
After that, it's off to the archery range.

[Kietharr]

Melee killing HFS is possible, just send your men in and then wall off the exit. They'll take some damage from fire and you'll probably lose one or two lower skilled dwarves to unlucky fireballs but champions with high shield skill can take fire clowns no problem.

As was said, the problem is they want to rest after being wounded. Make sure they can't path to a bed so they fight. After the battle is over you can bring down the wall (but don't go into the funhouse, the burning coals will kill dwarves for a few seasons after they are lit)

[decius]

Ballistae are weapons too.

If you have demons, you have adamantine. Why use steel?

[Firnagzen]

Actually... Fireballs are guaranteed hits. I believe it was in one of the devlogs, that the almighty Toady One needs to remember to add some way of blocking fireballs in the next version, which are currently guaranteed to block, unless the fireball misses completely. But if you're on the same tile as a fireball, fwoosh. Anything flamable goes up.

Also, spoiler your spoilers!

[Derakon]

Bah, the HFS in demon pits isn't the existence of the demons. It's all the stuff in the pits that go with the demons. Spoiler tagging everything just makes the forums tedious to read.

[kg333]

Bah, the HFS in demon pits isn't the existence of the demons. It's all the stuff in the pits that go with the demons. Spoiler tagging everything just makes the forums tedious to read.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Funny, I thought all the stuff in the pits was a warning about the existence of demons...

KG

[eerr]

Actually... Fireballs are guaranteed hits. I believe it was in one of the devlogs, that the almighty Toady One needs to remember to add some way of blocking fireballs in the next version, which are currently guaranteed to block, unless the fireball misses completely. But if you're on the same tile as a fireball, fwoosh. Anything flamable goes up.

Also, spoiler your spoilers!

but about all those adventurers who supposedly block fireballs with their shields?