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Author Topic: Bars/Inns/Tavers etc..  (Read 8001 times)

Vattic

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Re: Bars/Inns/Tavers etc..
« Reply #30 on: June 08, 2009, 10:37:00 am »

IronValley that's not to mention all those coins that will come rolling in.

I completely support this idea however, I'd also like to see a place for travellers to spend the night, some rooms upstairs maybe?
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catoblepas

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Re: Bars/Inns/Tavers etc..
« Reply #31 on: June 09, 2009, 01:23:06 am »

This sounds like a good idea, and would give players more of a reason to mint coins and such if travelers from other civs came by and spend some coin in your tavern or inn. There would have to be some sort of way to toggle what types of goods/how many goods per season your dwarves would be allowed to sell to prevent them from selling off all of your food and drink to traveling merchants etc.
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SirHoneyBadger

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Re: Bars/Inns/Tavers etc..
« Reply #32 on: June 09, 2009, 03:01:12 am »

I completely support this idea however, I'd also like to see a place for travellers to spend the night, some rooms upstairs maybe?

This is a good idea too, but I'd like the two ideas be separated, atleast to a point. Not every tavern is an inn, not every inn is a tavern, and not every rentable space serves refreshments.

However, they could also come back together, with things like common rooms (where everybody sleeps on the floor), meals served at inns, grooming and/or stabling services (may include the possibility of renting a sleeping space in the stable), inns/taverns that double-often secretly-as bordellos, gambling dens, opium dens, thieves' or assassins' guilds, shanghai salloons (dwarfs check in, but they don't check out until they're 12 miles out to sea), etc.

There might also be the bed & breakfast, and specialty inns/taverns that cater to soldiers, certain species (dwarfs only!), sailors (Ye Olde Red Lobster), males only (gentledwarf's club--sexist, ofcourse, but historically accurate), bars that feature music/cater to musicians (no karaoke, please!) or poetry/cater to poets, gladiator bars, or bars that don't serve alchohol at all, instead specializing in some other refreshment: tobacco, tea, coffee, hot chocolate, etc. Even "medicinal" bars may exist, which would serve various potions or tinctures meant to promote good health (in many cases, an extremely dubious claim, at best), or supposed aphrodisiacs (even more dubious).

Bars could be as simple as a cave with a keg in it, or the medieval fantasy equivalent of a Studio 54-style-nightclub.
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chucks

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Re: Bars/Inns/Tavers etc..
« Reply #33 on: June 09, 2009, 10:15:07 am »

Bars could be as simple as a cave with a keg in it, or the medieval fantasy equivalent of a Studio 54-style-nightclub.

I'm pretty sure that those were referred to as brothels.



Having areas where travellers and units that are not members of your fortress population should require some handling of security.  There should be a way to have a common area of the fortress where you can place a trade depot, bar, tavern, inn, etc. to entertain and service outsiders.  However, there should be ways of keeping them from entering the more important areas of the fortress (workshops, bedrooms, stockpiles, farms, etc) through means of locked doors and guarded doors and whatnot.  Perhaps doors could be marked to forbid passage of outsiders, similar to how doors can be marked to forbid passage of animals.
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SirHoneyBadger

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Re: Bars/Inns/Tavers etc..
« Reply #34 on: June 10, 2009, 12:03:37 am »

Bordellos = brothels. Or maybe brothels+

By "studio 54-style-nightclub" I just meant something skeezy-elite, someplace for all the rich jaded perverts to get together and talk demon summoning, while they knock back laudanum high-balls.

chucks: You could maybe have an outer wall (or a ghetto) for containing the damn dirty furriners, while your dwarfs reside inside the fashionably impenetrable inner wall, and ofcourse underground.
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chucks

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Re: Bars/Inns/Tavers etc..
« Reply #35 on: June 10, 2009, 12:12:24 am »

Having a ghetto to quarantine your filthy foreign undesirables away from your preciously cultivated gem of a dwarven civilization is made of epic win with a dash of the innate natural cruelty of prejudice.
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Zulaf

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Re: Bars/Inns/Tavers etc..
« Reply #36 on: June 10, 2009, 12:48:57 am »

As fun as bars, complete with barbrawls sound. There's a few issues that could arise (as in, they will happen.... this is DF after all.....)

1. Your Hammerer gets smashed, gets into a barfight and looses, then decides to deal justice as he sees fit.....
2. Your Adamantine clad Champion gets smashed, gets into a barfight and WINS....
3. Tantrum spiral in the tavern.....

WELL! SOMEONE's not very dwarven today now are we?
I consider all those pluses, especially when the fortress mode politics get more in depth.

Ok, so the elf queen generates a magical aura that renders all the other female elves infertile, as long as she's alive.

I believe the ant are born infertile, Now bee queens produce a pheromone where the workers are rendered infertile, once the queen gets offed somehow then the workers(maybe only one or two i dunno) start producing eggs, but only drones(the male bees) cause they don't have fully functional female tidally bits.......... I'v started getting into beekeeping and couldnt leave it alone...
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SirHoneyBadger

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Re: Bars/Inns/Tavers etc..
« Reply #37 on: June 10, 2009, 01:07:34 am »

That's cool, Zulaf. I'd love to try beekeeping, but my wife's allergic, so it's impossible.

So elves are more like bees? Interesting.
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Konrad von Richtmark

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Re: Bars/Inns/Tavers etc..
« Reply #38 on: November 05, 2012, 06:09:20 pm »

I found this thread via the suggestion voter utility, and I have to say, I had been thinking the same thing. Boozing is supposedly a significant, essential part of the Dwarven existence, but the game handles it rather crudely atm. The dwarf just goes to the nearest barrel, drinks right out of it, and the continues on its way. Unlike eating, which takes place in a defined dining room.

I think though some of the suggestions on this thread, even if not bad per se, are a bit more far-going than I had thought. A simple system analogous to eating in dining rooms would already be welcome. A tavern could be a room defined from a table just like a dining room is. All booze in stockpiles inside the designated area would be available for consumption. Mugs and tankards could be allocated to the tavern. Dwarves drinking in taverns would get happy thoughts not only from the quality of the drink, but from the quality of the room as well as the quality of the tankard. Drinking dwarves would be able to socialize with each other.

Dwarves would be able, in the absence of a tavern, to drink straight from stockpile barrels, but doing so would give an unhappy thought (to compensate for having one more way of generating happy thoughts).

Keeping taverns separate from dining rooms would make sense since a dwarf eats 2 times per season, but drinks 4 times. Thus, a drink is more of a short break from work. It'd make sense, then, out of logistical concerns, to set up small taverns all around the areas in which your dwarves work, such as workshop parks.

That's the bare bones of a tavern system I'd like to suggest.
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: Bars/Inns/Tavers etc..
« Reply #39 on: November 05, 2012, 09:41:47 pm »

Sounds good. I especially like the idea of small taverns near work places.
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Jetman123

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Re: Bars/Inns/Tavers etc..
« Reply #40 on: November 11, 2012, 11:34:54 am »

I found this thread via the suggestion voter utility, and I have to say, I had been thinking the same thing. Boozing is supposedly a significant, essential part of the Dwarven existence, but the game handles it rather crudely atm. The dwarf just goes to the nearest barrel, drinks right out of it, and the continues on its way. Unlike eating, which takes place in a defined dining room.

I think though some of the suggestions on this thread, even if not bad per se, are a bit more far-going than I had thought. A simple system analogous to eating in dining rooms would already be welcome. A tavern could be a room defined from a table just like a dining room is. All booze in stockpiles inside the designated area would be available for consumption. Mugs and tankards could be allocated to the tavern. Dwarves drinking in taverns would get happy thoughts not only from the quality of the drink, but from the quality of the room as well as the quality of the tankard. Drinking dwarves would be able to socialize with each other.

Dwarves would be able, in the absence of a tavern, to drink straight from stockpile barrels, but doing so would give an unhappy thought (to compensate for having one more way of generating happy thoughts).

Keeping taverns separate from dining rooms would make sense since a dwarf eats 2 times per season, but drinks 4 times. Thus, a drink is more of a short break from work. It'd make sense, then, out of logistical concerns, to set up small taverns all around the areas in which your dwarves work, such as workshop parks.

That's the bare bones of a tavern system I'd like to suggest.

Already on the devlist, actually, under the Thief role. Taverns are one of the things that Toady plans to get to fairly soon, as they're an integral part of Adventurer play, and once you have them in Adventure mode I imagine it would be easy to put them in Fortress mode as well. Then you can watch your dwarves drunkenly fistfight one another.
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SirHoneyBadger

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Re: Bars/Inns/Tavers etc..
« Reply #41 on: November 24, 2012, 10:06:29 am »

An idea: What if dwarf bars could gradually develope their own sortof personality? Not in a sentient way at all, but suppose the dwarfs that frequented the bars you built, and the events around them, had an effect on the ambiance of the place?

Maybe the types of drinks that were served there-and if/what food was served-along with the level of lighting, entertainment (Is some fancy elf playing a full harp in the corner, or is the "entertainment" a pit-fight?), the possibility of bar fights randomly breaking out, along with how drunk or rowdy the patrons allow themselves to get--and allow newcomers to get before kicking them out; and infact, the types of newcomers who are easily accepted into the bar, could be charted, and then gradually modified over time.

This could start out based on how close the bar was to other types of buildings, and then the random personalities of the dwarfs who drink there--and how long they've drank there (the bar-wise oldtimers), along with how respected they are by the other patrons. 

As that happened over time, maybe things like bar songs, special games and bar traditions, and even decorations for the bar, could be added. Special microbrews might even come out of the bar, over time, allowing a popular hometown bar to have a fairly wide economic reach.

Maybe there could be a special tool you could use on smooth sections of stone that would allow your dwarfs to choose for themselves whether they want to engrave a wall or not, and to replace the engravings of other dwarfs, over time (hey they're dwarfs, so they should have the occasional reality-straining powers over stone), so that you could get a sort of stone graffiti going, as a way of tracking how dwarfs choose to express themselves in their own personal time.

That could then be extended to carving on tables and other furniture, and objects in general, and this could be done not only in the dwarf's favorite bar, but in their homes, as well. They might even come to prefer similar styles and decorations.

Maybe you could even create a special space that you're leaving unoccupied incase that bar ever wants to install a commemorative statue, or something. The bar's clientelle, or perhaps the barkeep, could then, years down the line, decide they want to honor their local miners with a rocksalt statue. They would then donate to the statue fund, based on their own personalities and how much wealth each dwarf could spare, and when they had enough, one of them could then purchase such a statue from one of your local merchants, and an Announcement could then come up in the game to tell you that there was a statue ready for you to place in SudsyBeards.

Such a statue might then become a target for a rival bar, in which case, you might want a small squad of soldiers/watchdwarfs/hammerers to protect it, or you might not personally like the statue, in which case you might cause it to be lost or destroyed--causing some hurt feelings, but saving the dwarfs money, or the statue might itself become a major bar fixture.

You might even decide to secretly order a compartment for buried treasure under the statue, unbeknownst to the dozens of dwarfs who drink only feet away from it every night--and known only for a short while by the recent migrant you ordered to build it, before silencing the unfortunate with lava, and adding a bit of sinister history/mystery to the place.

The place might even contain a whole series of trapdoors and underground chambers you could use to Shanghai unwary dwarfs--or perhaps just travelers of other species--for dark goings-on right under the noses of your unsuspecting citizens.   
 
And ofcourse, everyone knows that inns, taverns, and bars are gateways to adventure in general, in a fantasy world, so the impact of a special bar might come to affect your whole game--and give greater emotional impact to the game, at the same time. After all, how much do you really care when a berserk dwarf knocks over a random loom?

Change that loom into a cozy old tavern where you met your wife and where the reception was held, and it's where you drank you very first beer with your grandfather 30 years ago, when he and his World War 2 buddies always got together there every other Saturday, and his picture's on the wall in uniform, and so is your wife in her wedding dress with all her bridesmaids, and hey maybe it's the place where your favorite cousin always insists the jalapeno popper was invented, and suddenly it becomes more than just a random building.

Change it into a rough-and-tumble watering-hole for bandits and pirates, a haunted hotel still groaning from the weight of past misdeeds, or a wondrously exotic caravansarai where the most fanciful of drinks are served up-front, and where pleasures and vices rarer still can be bartered for in back booths screened with shadows and silk; and it can make the whole town around it all the more special.
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: Bars/Inns/Tavers etc..
« Reply #42 on: November 24, 2012, 10:24:02 am »

That sounds like a good idea.
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SirHoneyBadger

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Re: Bars/Inns/Tavers etc..
« Reply #43 on: November 24, 2012, 08:24:25 pm »

That sounds like a good idea.

Why, thank you very kindly.  :)

I figured, with our dwarfs having quite elaborate personalities, and considering all the effort that was put into making them individuals, it would be nice if that individuality, itself, was a sort of "resource", that could rub off on, and affect, the environment around it.

Plus, I've been reading Callahan's Crosstime Saloon, a book which is beyond amazing, and if anything can truly make you yearn for a place where "everybody knows your name", it's that.
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tyrannus007

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Re: Bars/Inns/Tavers etc..
« Reply #44 on: November 25, 2012, 05:00:06 am »

Toady talks a lot about inns in DFTalk 12, so it's safe to say he's planning on adding inns eventually.
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