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Author Topic: Do the needs of the group outweigh the life of a single dwarf?  (Read 2682 times)

doxdox

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Do the needs of the group outweigh the life of a single dwarf?
« on: November 21, 2009, 11:48:42 pm »

I started up a game with the Dig Deeper mod and embarked on a terrifying forest, fortunately uninfected with undeath, with no skills, no items, final destination. Upon butchering my beasts of burden, I planted a bowyer's and craftsdwarf's shop and started pumping out bone crossbows and bone bolts.

To my surprise, a werewolf spawned at the edge of the map and gradually meandered towards my dwarves. It inched closer and closer, sometimes taking an awkward detour towards another edge of the map before it set its sight on dwarven flesh. Everything seemed fine: two marksdwarves and five wrestlers should make short work of the lone werewolf. As it approached, the unthinkable happened.

Deaf to their kinsmens' cries, two wrestlers fell asleep. The first bonebolt was too late; the lycanthrope claimed his prize: Lorbam Twigcrystal's left foot. Fortunately, the werewolf could not survive the onslaught stemmed from my dwarves' need to survive.

Lorbam Twigcrystal is dying of thirst. Since I embarked without items, my only possessions include the three wooden logs from my wagon. If I plan to survive past autumn, I need these three logs for a trade depot; building a bucket would condemn the rest of my dwarves.

Does my obligation to ensure the survival of my remaining six dwarves justify the death of Lorbam Twigcrystal? But then again, chances are my dwarves might perish in the next attack or when orcs pay a visit in the winter. What do you guys think?
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ein

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Re: Do the needs of the group outweigh the life of a single dwarf?
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2009, 11:52:55 pm »

You need that wood for your depot.
Lorbam is a dead man.

Tallefred

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Re: Do the needs of the group outweigh the life of a single dwarf?
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2009, 12:07:28 am »

I would say that the needs of the group outweigh the one dwarf's life. He knew what he was getting into when he signed onto the expedition.
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Blackburn

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Re: Do the needs of the group outweigh the life of a single dwarf?
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2009, 12:09:12 am »

Was his foot cut off? If so, he's useless now.

If not...he's still useless. Dump him.
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They Got Leader

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Re: Do the needs of the group outweigh the life of a single dwarf?
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2009, 12:12:52 am »

Wait, tell me about this dwarf. Is he laying on the ground? Is he on a bed? Is there booze around? Is there ANY drink around? Is he missing his foot? Is he unconscious?
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KillerClowns

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Re: Do the needs of the group outweigh the life of a single dwarf?
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2009, 12:16:54 am »

Short answer: Yes.
General answer: Yes, and, hell, your amusement outweighs the life of a single dwarf.
Specific answer: Yes.  You don't build a bucket, he dies of thirst.  You DO build a bucket, and he dies when orcs tear him limb from limb.  He's already a corpse; it's a pity you can't mercy kill him.
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Reese

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Re: Do the needs of the group outweigh the life of a single dwarf?
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2009, 12:41:47 am »

well... you've got no beds.

Someone discovered that, without a bed to perform the resting task in, a wounded dwarf will go and drink booze if he can remain concious and move himself to the booze stock pile, so if you ignore him he should live or die on his own.  Of course, if he's drinking your booze, but not doing anything useful, he's still a burden.
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Pandarsenic

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Re: Do the needs of the group outweigh the life of a single dwarf?
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2009, 05:28:35 am »

He's useless. If you had beds he would be a waste of labor, without it he's a waste of booze. If you can mercykill him somehow, do so.
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Hagadorn

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Re: Do the needs of the group outweigh the life of a single dwarf?
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2009, 10:52:53 am »

"Do the needs of the group outweigh the life of a single dwarf?"

I know what those words mean individually... but that sentence makes no sense...
I mean... its just one Dorf!

but seriously. Take poor old lobram out behind the newly created trade depot and let him go the way of old yell'r...

Its the way he would of wanted to go...

Sobbing and begging for his miserable life as another dorf, sobbing and praying for forgiveness, bashes his brains out with a bone crossbow...
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You see, booze is a parasite. It lives off dwarves and compels them to dig into the ground so as to create massive defences to protect it's self. It really shouldn't be called dwarf fortress, Booze fortress would make much more sense.

Grendus

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Re: Do the needs of the group outweigh the life of a single dwarf?
« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2009, 06:14:16 pm »

I'm not so callous as to say amusement outweighs the life of a dwarf, but certainly the needs of one dwarf do not outweigh the combined needs of the other six. If you don't save that wood, you can't trade for an axe or pick that you NEED to survive. It's not even a choice, the wounded dwarf cannot be saved. If he can muster up the strength to drag himself to the water he can survive, but you can't save him. Don't let it bother you, it happens.
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A quick guide to surviving your first few days in CataclysmDDA:
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=121194.msg4796325;topicseen#msg4796325

shadowform

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Re: Do the needs of the group outweigh the life of a single dwarf?
« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2009, 11:16:23 pm »

What a silly question.

If you had to choose between protecting a soapmaker or starting your smelting industry by tapping into an unfortunately placed magma pipe that required a dwarf's death to access, which would you choose?

In Dwarven society, the greater good always outweighs the life of an individual.  As does amusement.  In fact, individual lives are really quite worthless, unless they're extremely popular or legendary weaponsmiths.
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Pandarsenic

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Re: Do the needs of the group outweigh the life of a single dwarf?
« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2009, 11:19:24 pm »

Legendary armorers are rather nice too.

...

You'll probably end up with more Legendary Stonecrafters than you have a use for though.
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KARATE CHOP TO THE SOUL
Your bone is the best Pandar honey. The best.
YOUR BONE IS THE BEST PANDAR
[Cheeetar] Pandar doesn't have issues, he has style.
Fuck off, you fucking fucker-fuck :I

doxdox

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Re: Do the needs of the group outweigh the life of a single dwarf?
« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2009, 11:54:29 pm »

Lorbam succumbed to his thirst.  :'(

The horrors of a terrifying forest slaughtered the rest of my dwarves. I LOVE embarking with no items and no skills on terrifying biomes.
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Hyndis

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Re: Do the needs of the group outweigh the life of a single dwarf?
« Reply #13 on: November 23, 2009, 11:41:44 am »

A legendary smith outweighs the needs of an entire fortress.

Everyone else can take a magma bath for all I care. :D
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Grendus

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Re: Do the needs of the group outweigh the life of a single dwarf?
« Reply #14 on: November 23, 2009, 01:25:55 pm »

Legendary armorers are rather nice too.

...

You'll probably end up with more Legendary Stonecrafters than you have a use for though.

I rarely have this problem. I draft all my peasants and almost all of my non-crafter dwarves. Didn't want to learn something useful? Fine, you get to dedicate your life to standing in the open while redundantly useful dwarves (extra bonecrafters, smiths, carpenters, etc) clean up from the last ambush that killed half your squad. Enjoy. After half a season or so of wrestling, they're elites who can't get moods. Then it's on to weapon training.

Usually I end up with useless moods anyways, but if it works out you get nice legendaries like a legendary clothier, armorsmith, or bowyer.
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A quick guide to surviving your first few days in CataclysmDDA:
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=121194.msg4796325;topicseen#msg4796325
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