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[Draco18s]

Oh I get that a bunch, but no worry! Good old friend Back button is to the rescue.

The back button doesn't recover your lost post when you hit F5.

refresh doesn't nuke it, either, in FF

Let me test that...

You're right, it doesn't.

No, but it probably should.  That's part of the point of refresh...

There are two kinds of refresh, one is a "forget the cache, redownload everything from the server" (ctrl+F5 or ctrl+click on refresh).

[Alrenous]

Finally. Reading every post in this thread, it's like half of you all expect that earlier games are supposed to be able to have that much depth. In Oblivion, they actually did walk around, sit down and eat, go through doors, appear in different areas in the town they lived in at different times of day, etc. Morrowind hadn't gotten to that point yet in development.

Ultima 7 came out even earlier and successfully gave every near every single person in the world a life. Barmaids would deliver food to patrons, who would eat it. Rulers would hold meetings.

I used a debug command in U7 part 2 to put an alchemist into the serpent way - which I'd outfitted as a proper hideout - and they did their job of brewing up potions, from a cauldron. (Which I'd then steal.) I think I even gave them a bed to sleep in.

Plus the first time I played U7 I was blown away by the fact I could pick up cups and forks. My only regret is that you couldn't actually use the fork for anything - but at the very least, I could roleplay having to have a fork, just like I imagine that my dwarves enjoy (or fear) the views I give them.

[Shades]

There's nothing wrong with linear games in my opinion. Procedurally generated games just can't create stories as coherently empathic as something someone has sat down and crafted. They can provide a jumping block for the imagination, but I've yet to be emotionally moved by anything that's happened in DF. Maybe my imagination isn't linked very strongly to my empathy... or maybe I've seen too many Dwarves eating kittens to get too sad when bad things happen to them.

I think the main problem is not linear games as such but ones that feel linear, so you feel like you never really had any impact or choice. The better story driven games, thinking of things like planescape torment or grim fandango, are truely linear but did not feel restricting in my view.

The opposite is often true as well if you look at supposedly 'free-roaming' games that actually feel very restricted and are only free roaming in that you have to walk through miles of pointless world between events.

[Neonivek]

No I think the problem are linear games that try to seem open ended. "Here is your choice! It won't have any impact except possibly the ending, but you must make it!"

Well that and a over saturation of overly straight forward games.

The worst are Moral Choices in videogames, I could write an essay on those alone.

[dragnar]

The worst are Moral Choices in videogames, I could write an essay on those alone.

Your choices: help an old lady cross the road, or kill her and her entire family just because you can!

[Rowanas]

Wait? That's a choice? 

[Neonivek]

Wait? That's a choice? 

Well in Infamos there is one point where your choice is either to tell someone that their wife is dead or kill them

In a Fable Minigame you have a choice to pick apples for a Granny so you can get an apple pie or Impale her on a rake

[Footkerchief]

In a Fable Minigame you have a choice to pick apples for a Granny so you can get an apple pie or Impale her on a rake

While I agree that it's dumb to set up moral choices in such a black-and-white way, that is one of the most awesome cartoonishly evil options I've ever seen.

[nil]

There need to be different terms for linear and sandbox RPGs.  At this point, they're totally different beasts, and are likely to only become more divergent as time goes on.

[Draco18s]

In a Fable Minigame you have a choice to pick apples for a Granny so you can get an apple pie or Impale her on a rake

While I agree that it's dumb to set up moral choices in such a black-and-white way, that is one of the most awesome cartoonishly evil options I've ever seen.

We need some kind of middle ground.

[dragnar]

Or just an evil choice that doesn't fit on this page. It's funny, but it really doesn't  make much sense story-wise.

[Shima]

Ironically (?), I'd have to say the only game series I know from experience that doesn't have random good/evil choices (All choices are cast in a light respective of which faction you chose or various actions during a playthrough), would be the Way of a Samurai series, which isn't even RPG.

[Neonivek]

Though to admit though... If your evil in Way of the Samurai your score is going to be less (you get less of a score)

Unfortunately Way of the Samurai 2 to my knowledge doesn't have an ultimate ending like the first one. Though I may have simply not found it yet. (I hate its weapon upgrade mechanics)

[Shima]

In 2, unfortunately, the penultimate ending was effectively being a super guy, wipe out the gang and the corrupt magistrates and save the little girl.

I don't know about 3, it seems like it MIGHT be a nice return to the Yojimbo style of 1, which may mean an ultimate ending like 1 had.

As for weapon upgrading, well.  I learned to hate Dojima in 2, so I'm sure having TWO Dojima this time will be like some kind of aneurysm to my sensibilities.

It's always been a shame about the score, but when it comes right down to it, you'll pretty much unlock everything eventually regardless.

[Maggarg - Eater of chicke]

I guess the only game where you can really do anything is DnD.