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Author Topic: Thank you, Tarn!  (Read 22290 times)

dragnar

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Re: Thank you, Tarn!
« Reply #60 on: November 19, 2009, 08:06:25 pm »


Woudn't DF also die if PC gaming died though?

Not in theory.  Since DF has no real stake in the business aspect of PC gaming, it would be entirely unaffected.  Honestly, as far as I'm aware, Tarn makes DF because he wants to make a game, there's no money-motive like all the corporations have.

I suppose a better phrasing would be "I want the PC market to collapse".
I believe a line from an essay I read on the values of indie game developers fits here: Death to the gaming industry, long live gaming!
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From this thread, I learned that video cameras have a dangerosity of 60 kiloswords per second.  Thanks again, Mad Max.

platypus

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Re: Thank you, Tarn!
« Reply #61 on: November 19, 2009, 08:11:08 pm »

Fantastic input, guys!

First of all:
If I'm not misunderstanding and you pirated it - go to hell, people like you are the number one reason PC gaming is dying and what games we do get are watered down console garbage ports.

Take a cold shower. I understand your anger, but it's misdirected. You'll notice there is no demo version of DA:O. You'll also notice I mentioned I had low expectations. Please tell me why I should fork over the equivalent of $80 (in Norwegian currency - new games are expensive here) for a product I don't think I'll like and haven't had the opportunity to try for myself. Were I to do this, more often than not I'd be supporting the very system I'm trying to fight.

I don't endorse piracy. I have NO qualms paying for games. At a conservative estimate, I have probably spent to the tune of $10,000 on games and game-related products over the years, and I'll continue shelling out, for quality. In Norway, console gaming is a vastly larger market than PC gaming. There are no rental shops for PC games, you can't return games you don't like, and the second-hand market is non-existent. If you spot the cash, you'd better make sure it's a good investment, or that money is lost.

It sounds to me like the original poster just does not like RPGs.

As others have pointed out, it should be clear from my attitude that I do indeed like RPGs, I just don't often come across one that gets it right, or even mostly right. It's all about the willing suspension of disbelief: The more technically advanced a game gets, the more it mirrors reality in appearance (2D -> 3D, for instance), the harder it becomes to make that game world behave as the player would expect it to. Every time you replace a facet of the player's imagination with coded behavior, you raise the bar. A game like ADoM (or even Zork) can be more immersive than DA:O, not because it's more realistic, but because it gives itself fewer opportunities to fail by presenting the player with a glaring inconsistency.

As someone else pointed out, I think many fantasy game developers grossly underestimate the mental capabilities of the gaming public. People have been enjoying games for decades, and I'm not at all convinced today's games are inherently more enjoyable than the games of twenty years ago, even to a modern player.

One of my absolute favorite games is a pay-per-play text-only quasi-RPG MUD. It is wholly independent and has been in operation, profitable operation, for twenty years, and is still going strong. This is remarkable, considering the competition. It has a self-sustaining, player-run economy, a political hierarchy, farming, large-scale warfare, EXTREMELY complex, unmitigated PvP combat, a pantheon of active and in-character gods, and ends up modeling society very well. I say quasi-RPG, for though it purports to be an RPG, most people essentially play a version of themselves, shaped by the mechanics of the game world.

The best, or rather most successful, genuine RPG I've played, also happens to be a text-only MUD. Now, why do you think this is?

EDIT: Before someone draws the (incorrect) conclusion that I simply don't like graphical RPGs, let me mention one I loved as a kid: Ultima Underworld II (for the few who remember it) - certainly a linear game by the standards of this thread, but it did a lot of things right. It didn't have a tutorial, which I entirely agree is a horrible concept. Let the player learn by trial and error. It also required the character to eat, NOT to replenish his health points - which is idiotic - but to avoid starving to death.

« Last Edit: November 19, 2009, 08:28:05 pm by platypus »
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Azkanan

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Re: Thank you, Tarn!
« Reply #62 on: November 19, 2009, 08:14:15 pm »

Fantastic input, guys!

First of all:
If I'm not misunderstanding and you pirated it - go to hell, people like you are the number one reason PC gaming is dying and what games we do get are watered down console garbage ports.

Take a cold shower. I understand your anger, but it's misdirected. You'll notice there is no demo version of DA:O. You'll also notice I mentioned I had low expectations. Please tell me why I should fork over the equivalent of $80 (in Norwegian currency - new games are expensive here) for a product I don't think I'll like and haven't had the opportunity to try for myself. Were I to do this, more often than not I'd be supporting the system I'm trying to fight.

I don't endorse piracy. I have NO qualms paying for games. At a conservative estimate, I have probably spent to the tune of $10,000 on games and game-related products over the years, and I'll continue shelling out, for quality. In Norway, console gaming is a vastly larger market than PC gaming. There are no rental shops for PC games, you can't return games you don't like, and the second-hand market is non-existent. If you spot the cash, you'd better make sure it's a good investment, or that money is lost.

1. Is the game free?

No? Continue.

2. Did you buy the game, but have acquired it?

No? continue.


Your results: You're a pirate. End of. No bullshitting can get you out of it. Quit making pansy excuses.

Do you want the game? Yes.

Then buy it. Can't afford it? Don't want to pay for it? Don't get it. End of.

:)
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KaelGotDwarves

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Re: Thank you, Tarn!
« Reply #63 on: November 19, 2009, 08:18:26 pm »

Fantastic input, guys!

First of all:
If I'm not misunderstanding and you pirated it - go to hell, people like you are the number one reason PC gaming is dying and what games we do get are watered down console garbage ports.

Take a cold shower. I understand your anger, but it's misdirected. You'll notice there is no demo version of DA:O. You'll also notice I mentioned I had low expectations. Please tell me why I should fork over the equivalent of $80 (in Norwegian currency - new games are expensive here) for a product I don't think I'll like and haven't had the opportunity to try for myself. Were I to do this, more often than not I'd be supporting the system I'm trying to fight.

I don't endorse piracy. I have NO qualms paying for games. At a conservative estimate, I have probably spent to the tune of $10,000 on games and game-related products over the years, and I'll continue shelling out, for quality. In Norway, console gaming is a vastly larger market than PC gaming. There are no rental shops for PC games, you can't return games you don't like, and the second-hand market is non-existent. If you spot the cash, you'd better make sure it's a good investment, or that money is lost.

1. Is the game free?

No? Continue.

2. Did you buy the game, but have acquired it?

No? continue.


Your results: You're a pirate. End of. No bullshitting can get you out of it. Quit making pansy excuses.
I borrowed it, so is this pirating?

Azkanan

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Re: Thank you, Tarn!
« Reply #64 on: November 19, 2009, 08:20:36 pm »

Fantastic input, guys!

First of all:
If I'm not misunderstanding and you pirated it - go to hell, people like you are the number one reason PC gaming is dying and what games we do get are watered down console garbage ports.

Take a cold shower. I understand your anger, but it's misdirected. You'll notice there is no demo version of DA:O. You'll also notice I mentioned I had low expectations. Please tell me why I should fork over the equivalent of $80 (in Norwegian currency - new games are expensive here) for a product I don't think I'll like and haven't had the opportunity to try for myself. Were I to do this, more often than not I'd be supporting the system I'm trying to fight.

I don't endorse piracy. I have NO qualms paying for games. At a conservative estimate, I have probably spent to the tune of $10,000 on games and game-related products over the years, and I'll continue shelling out, for quality. In Norway, console gaming is a vastly larger market than PC gaming. There are no rental shops for PC games, you can't return games you don't like, and the second-hand market is non-existent. If you spot the cash, you'd better make sure it's a good investment, or that money is lost.

1. Is the game free?

No? Continue.

2. Did you buy the game, but have acquired it?

No? continue.


Your results: You're a pirate. End of. No bullshitting can get you out of it. Quit making pansy excuses.
I borrowed it, so is this pirating?

Depends what country you are in :D

England: Borrowing means to steal from another.
America: <fill, I am not american>
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Footkerchief

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Re: Thank you, Tarn!
« Reply #65 on: November 19, 2009, 08:21:53 pm »

Your results: You're a pirate. End of. No bullshitting can get you out of it. Quit making pansy excuses.

Do you want the game? Yes.

Then buy it. Can't afford it? Don't want to pay for it? Don't get it. End of.

:)

No really, calm down.  And before you ask, we know you're not calm because of your terse phrasing and use of direct insults.
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Azkanan

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Re: Thank you, Tarn!
« Reply #66 on: November 19, 2009, 08:23:35 pm »

Your results: You're a pirate. End of. No bullshitting can get you out of it. Quit making pansy excuses.

Do you want the game? Yes.

Then buy it. Can't afford it? Don't want to pay for it? Don't get it. End of.

:)

No really, calm down.  And before you ask, we know you're not calm because of your terse phrasing and use of direct insults.

Naw, It's just a practiced attack. I am rather calm :D... I come across so many people that are ready for that response. (:
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Helmaroc

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Re: Thank you, Tarn!
« Reply #67 on: November 19, 2009, 08:24:20 pm »

1. Is the game free?

No? Continue.

2. Did you buy the game, but have acquired it?

No? continue.


Your results: You're a pirate. End of. No bullshitting can get you out of it. Quit making pansy excuses.

Do you want the game? Yes.

Then buy it. Can't afford it? Don't want to pay for it? Don't get it. End of.

:)

He never denied pirating. And I look at it this way, they made a crappy game and they're going to make plenty of money for it. Why give crappy game makers more money to make more crappy games that you don't like?

But I understand where you're coming from.
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Footkerchief

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Re: Thank you, Tarn!
« Reply #68 on: November 19, 2009, 08:29:43 pm »

Naw, It's just a practiced attack. I am rather calm :D... I come across so many people that are ready for that response. (:

To be honest, it doesn't matter if it's "practiced" or not.  It's called "flaming" and it's not done here, so chill.
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woose1

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Re: Thank you, Tarn!
« Reply #69 on: November 19, 2009, 08:31:04 pm »

D:

If you don't support gaming, gaming won't get better.

Can you expect Toady to work harder if we suddenly deny him donations? No, of course not, he'll go back to working at burger king or whatever.
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Azkanan

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Re: Thank you, Tarn!
« Reply #70 on: November 19, 2009, 08:31:14 pm »

Naw, It's just a practiced attack. I am rather calm :D... I come across so many people that are ready for that response. (:

To be honest, it doesn't matter if it's "practiced" or not.  It's called "flaming" and it's not done here, so chill.

If that's what you call flaming... then... wow. Just, wow. This is called aggressive debating ^_^.

D:

If you don't support gaming, gaming won't get better.

Can you expect Toady to work harder if we suddenly deny him donations? No, of course not, he'll go back to working at burger king or whatever.

In the real world, Burger King works for Toady. :|
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Dakk

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Re: Thank you, Tarn!
« Reply #71 on: November 19, 2009, 08:36:53 pm »

Naw, It's just a practiced attack. I am rather calm :D... I come across so many people that are ready for that response. (:

To be honest, it doesn't matter if it's "practiced" or not.  It's called "flaming" and it's not done here, so chill.

If that's what you call flaming... then... wow. Just, wow. This is called aggressive debating ^_^.

Nay, its called oh liek, totally not flamming yo, so i win da coversashun.

No ammount of weeaboo emotes will fake that.
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Footkerchief

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Re: Thank you, Tarn!
« Reply #72 on: November 19, 2009, 08:37:13 pm »

If that's what you call flaming... then... wow. Just, wow. This is called aggressive debating ^_^.

You calling people a "pansy" is not debating.

D:

If you don't support gaming, gaming won't get better.

It makes zero sense to talk about "supporting gaming" as if gaming is monolithic.  That's like saying he should "support politics" by donating money to corrupt politicians so they'll clean up their act.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2009, 08:39:37 pm by Footkerchief »
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Azkanan

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Re: Thank you, Tarn!
« Reply #73 on: November 19, 2009, 08:37:57 pm »

Naw, It's just a practiced attack. I am rather calm :D... I come across so many people that are ready for that response. (:

To be honest, it doesn't matter if it's "practiced" or not.  It's called "flaming" and it's not done here, so chill.

If that's what you call flaming... then... wow. Just, wow. This is called aggressive debating ^_^.

Nay, its called oh liek, totally not flamming yo, so i win da coversashun.

No ammount of weeaboo emotes will fake that.

That is a flame. A baseless slap. :) Anywho, i'm off to bed. Night night.
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platypus

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Re: Thank you, Tarn!
« Reply #74 on: November 19, 2009, 08:38:50 pm »

Naw, It's just a practiced attack. I am rather calm :D... I come across so many people that are ready for that response. (:

Thank you for your nuanced view. ;)
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