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[Book]

Beginner's Vengeful Mafia....

Actually, that does sound great. I fully support the idea. Who wants to run one? (experienced mods, please; let's keep the learning on one side of the table). Also, should there be an IC? Player or non-player?

[IronyOwl]

Hm. There's probably not really room for a playing IC, since they'd be too powerful as confirmed town and too intimidating to deal with as potential scum.

I'm honestly kind of torn on having an IC at all. It seems hard to imagine it hurting, but the point is more of a crash course, so it might be better to let them read the guides and then receive pointers after the fact. It's also a rather delicate game, so I might be a little worried about the impact an IC's realtime advice might have. On the other hand, I think it's been shown that numerous people just now joining have no idea how to play, and letting them crash and burn before telling them why they suck might not really be productive. The participants of the "should ICs actually play" discussion would probably be better qualified to answer this question, though.

I might be up for running it myself, especially if we don't have any more experienced mods that want the job. And of course, this might be the kind of thing that could get multiple games at once if it's successful/popular enough.

[Toaster]

What about making the IC available for advice for the first 24 realtime hours?  After that, they're on their own.

[webadict]

What about making the IC available for advice for the first 24 realtime hours?  After that, they're on their own.

I've got a better idea.

Each of the five players is strapped to a nuclear device with a load of about 50 kilotons with a 2-hour timer. They are surrounded by their friends and family who are bound to chairs with several chains, but are free to talk. If anybody escapes from their chair, a device strapped to their neck explodes.

For the next 72 hours straight, they must play like experts. Any time they make a mistake, a coin is flipped.

If it lands on heads, a randomly selected friend or family member is shot, which is displayed on a giant television that all friends and family are facing. The mistake is also displayed, and they will have another hour to fix the mistake in some way, or face another coin flip. Should all friends and family members die, the flip becomes tails.
If it lands on tails, the timer starts on the nuclear device. They will have whatever time is remaining to fix the mistake, which then stops the timer at that point. If the timer reaches 0, the device is activated. However, a chrono deceleration field is activated, reducing the passing of time to about .01% of its current speed. However, every person inside the radius of the containment field will have had several injections of a chrono acceleration drug, negating the field, so they experience the explosion in super slow-mo.

Should any player survive, they will be allowed to play mafia with the rest of us.

[RedWarrior0]

I dunno... Seems a little...

Seems like some bad players could still get through.

[Argembarger]

Wait, hold on. Are all 5 players (+their friends and family) all in the same room?

Do they each have their own 50 kiloton nuclear device?

It seems to me that a party of four decent noobs could all get wiped out by one hopelessly and persistantly bad one.

If they are all out of range of each other and playing via video chat, I could see this being a perfectly feasible BVM game.

[webadict]

Wait, hold on. Are all 5 players (+their friends and family) all in the same room?

Do they each have their own 50 kiloton nuclear device?

It seems to me that a party of four decent noobs could all get wiped out by one hopelessly and persistantly bad one.

If they are all out of range of each other and playing via video chat, I could see this being a perfectly feasible BVM game.

Of course they're out of range of each other. That'd be silly if they weren't.

[IronyOwl]

Damn it web.

[Pandarsenic]

I support this plan.

[TolyK]

   I would fully support there being a beginner's
vengeful mafia and would totally join it.

same here, but.
*plan*

I support this plan.

with me on the ISS

[Book]

Beginner's Vengeful Mafia.
Thoughts?

I've been thinking about this for a bit, and with the recent VM6 going on, I'm feeling the adrenaline that the newbies should be feeling. IronyOwl, if you want to host this, this is your last chance to call it.  Otherwise...

... I'm almost ready to say I'll host BVM1: Beginner's Vengeful Mafia 1.



Terms
Entry challenges: This shouldn't be people's first game. They should play a BM first. Then this as second, sure. Or third, or seventh even, sure. But before their in request is accepted, they'd have to include the answer to a number of little questions/puzzles posted somewhere in the rules, asking them to agree to be active, agree to not give up, to play to win, make sure they can read, and do other things players take for granted.
Entry limits: Webadict can't join as a player. He's too cool. Neither can Vector, Pandar, Toaster or IronyOwl; they're almost as much. Some sort of vetting will be in place (at the discretion of the mod, initially, but ideally numerically/objectively determined), so that it's limited to newbies on their way to tenderfoots. Or something like that.



Rules
Generally as posted on VM6, with some further clarifications/conditions/caveats/links. Basically, this is a game where you can't screw up; if you do, it'll be held against you. Don't join unless you will not give up, you will play to win, and you'll be active; if you edit a post, it will count against your rank in the Attendance Board; if you flake, lurk, are prodded or modkilled, it'll have consequences. The intention being that if you manage to WIN this game, you can sit at the grownup's table. I think this is a fair and hard enough trophy, and worthy enough to encourage newbies to try their best. If they don't win, they can try again. And again. And again.

Should any player survive, they will be allowed to play mafia with the rest of us.

Do the grownups here agree that those who win this game fairly can sit with them?



Considerations
ICs: There will be up to four (two? twelve?) ICs who are free to post. None of them are players, have no spoilers, no roles, merely clearance to post if they wish. Activity is the point, I'd rather have unconnected advice from two to four seldom posting ICs than 24 hours passing with no comment. If no ICs sign up, or no ICs post, the mod can comment in this capacity as long as it's clearly noted by formatting in some way.
...more to come, I'm still thinking.




...these are ideas still in rough format and subject to change. Suggestions welcome. How should the step between BM and Paranormal/BYOR be taken?

[Mr.Person]

Yeah, but I think even if a player loses, it would be a bit of a dick move to bar them from mafia in general as long as they played well.

[Argembarger]

And conversely, if a player wins but the game in general was played so badly as to warrant an almost random outcome, that shouldn't be good enough.

We should be selecting based on observed playing skill rather than victory/defeat I think

[Mephansteras]

I, too, think we shouldn't turn people away simply for losing. Any decent player is welcome to join my games, at least.

[Toaster]

I think this is leaning dangerously elitist.  We shouldn't force players to win this little game before we let them in the "big league" games. (Paranormal etc)  I've seem players come out of BM games playing very well, and I'd have no problem playing with them in other games.

If a mod wants to limit games to people who have played a few or exclude people who cause problems, that's fine, but anything blanket is bad.


However, I support the idea of an alternate style beginner's game in general.  Vengeful is good because it's short and simple to run.