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[Darvi]

Sure. I mean, somebody more experienced knows what questions to ask and how to appear less scummy. You know, setting an example of how to play the game.

[JanusTwoface]

I've been looking at a couple of games and it seems like we have some weird relationship of newbies to old-timers... anyway, I feel like fewer people are coming out of BMs with an idea of how to really scumhunt.  We're transmitting the form, but not the function, and without reasoning all "scum-hunting" just looks like a charade.

It is weird and a problem. In mixed games, newer players have a tendency to get shut down and not come back. There's a few players that yell more than others and lynch newer players on Day 1. Neither is terribly helpful towards keeping people around.

Plus, I stopped being so angry. A little.

A very little.

Wouldn't be bad. You know, so that newbies see how they do it.

The biggest problem I have with it is then you run the risk of getting clones of players and behaviors that are problematic of themselves. I've said it before, one webadict (as just one example) is plenty.

[Darvi]

Well, two ICs would kinda balance that out. Maybe. Like, so the other can say "that, kids, is how you don't do it"

[Zai]

How about we keep discussion of ongoing games in their respective threads? I LIKE THAT IDEA

I think this is a good place. It's about Beginner's Mafia

That's not what I'm talking about. This is pretty much the BM-planning thread. I was talking about Darvi complaining about how CERTAIN PEOPLE are playing in CERTAIN ONGOING GAMES.

[Book]

Yeah, Darvi: No talking about ongoing games outside the thread! PM the mod if you must voice your opinions.

[Vector]

Yeah, playing ICs could be good.  I remember the first time I was accused of scum... lordy, that was terrible, but after it ended everything got easier.

The return of the mountainous could also be good, because the older players love those and would probably populate them a good amount of the way, but the newer players would be able to get a good deal out of both the pedagogy and the not-so-insane setups.

Basically, I think there's multiple factors going on here.  We need new setups and we need a new IC system.

That said, the playing ICs should not be the board's experts.  They should be the advanced-to-intermediate players like IronyOwl and Toaster, because I remember that last time I was in a BM it ended very, very badly.  That, and the most skilled players tend to affect a lot of bad habits because they don't need to play perfectly, or in an attempt to lay traps (example: Solifuge).  Folks with nice straightforward town games are the ones we need ICing.

Dakarian would've been great, but... he's gone now... anyway, that class of careful player, not sloppy ones.

[webadict]

Wouldn't be bad. You know, so that newbies see how they do it.

The biggest problem I have with it is then you run the risk of getting clones of players and behaviors that are problematic of themselves. I've said it before, one webadict (as just one example) is plenty.

You can balance this out, you know. Have a certain player paired up with another, so they each show different ways of scumhunting. Plus, they can tell people when they're doing it wrong.

But, the tricky part is that they'd have to learn how to teach people to play, while also playing. IC that are playing are more involved in the game, but also need to realize that the game is intended as a learning exercise. I would never yell at a newbie the same way I yell at someone that's played and knows what they're doing.

How about we keep discussion of ongoing games in their respective threads? I LIKE THAT IDEA

I think this is a good place. It's about Beginner's Mafia

That's not what I'm talking about. This is pretty much the BM-planning thread. I was talking about Darvi complaining about how CERTAIN PEOPLE are playing in CERTAIN ONGOING GAMES.

My bad. I was talking about other things.

Yeah, playing ICs could be good.  I remember the first time I was accused of scum... lordy, that was terrible, but after it ended everything got easier.

The return of the mountainous could also be good, because the older players love those and would probably populate them a good amount of the way, but the newer players would be able to get a good deal out of both the pedagogy and the not-so-insane setups.

Basically, I think there's multiple factors going on here.  We need new setups and we need a new IC system.

That said, the playing ICs should not be the board's experts.  They should be the advanced-to-intermediate players like IronyOwl and Toaster, because I remember that last time I was in a BM it ended very, very badly.  That, and the most skilled players tend to affect a lot of bad habits because they don't need to play perfectly, or in an attempt to lay traps (example: Solifuge).  Folks with nice straightforward town games are the ones we need ICing.

Dakarian would've been great, but... he's gone now... anyway, that class of careful player, not sloppy ones.

No need for nostalgia. There have been many that were good.

I am alright with excluding certain people. Toaster and IronyOwl are perfect candidates, I agree.

[Darvi]

Yeah, Darvi: No talking about ongoing games outside the thread! PM the mod if you must voice your opinions.

Ya, my bad.

[Mephansteras]

Another options is to have 4 ICs. Two playing (could be town or scum) and 1 Town advisor and 1 Scum advisor. Needs more ICs, but it allows all roles to be filled.

[webadict]

Another options is to have 4 ICs. Two playing (could be town or scum) and 1 Town advisor and 1 Scum advisor. Needs more ICs, but it allows all roles to be filled.

That... works. The advisers can be any players and the playing ones can be the Toaster-esque ones.

[Darvi]

"Any player" is too broad a term. Do not want Org advisor  D:

[Vector]

Hm?  Oh, I know we've had a lot of great newbies and excellent ICs, good BMs even in recent times, and so on.  I was just remembering that first game and thinking "Hm, maybe we'd better not do quite that much."

Whoops, I guess you meant my commentary on Dakarian.  Yeah, I just hadn't thought about him in a good long while.


To be honest, I like the playing-ICs-only idea because it allows players to develop their own strategies.  I don't think it's good to just get involved in what the board already does and is already good at.  New players need to maybe be prodded by the mod to use the scumchat and things like that, but otherwise... we don't need to imbue folks with the whole of our tradition, just familiarize them with certain precepts, understanding of our own thought patterns, and so on, so that they can then come up with their own.

[webadict]

Hm?  Oh, I know we've had a lot of great newbies and excellent ICs, good BMs even in recent times, and so on.  I was just remembering that first game and thinking "Hm, maybe we'd better not do quite that much."

Whoops, I guess you meant my commentary on Dakarian.  Yeah, I just hadn't thought about him in a good long while.


To be honest, I like the playing-ICs-only idea because it allows players to develop their own strategies.  I don't think it's good to just get involved in what the board already does and is already good at.  New players need to maybe be prodded by the mod to use the scumchat and things like that, but otherwise... we don't need to imbue folks with the whole of our tradition, just familiarize them with certain precepts, understanding of our own thought patterns, and so on, so that they can then come up with their own.

Alright. I'll try it for this round.

Who would count as a good IC, though? We'd need to find two.

[Darvi]

Argembarger's volunteering, but I dunno how good he is.

[RedWarrior0]

Dakarian:

Last Active:
    April 25, 2010, 08:05:37 pm

Wow... RIP, Dakarian. Anyone want to hack his computer and put not-so-discreet messages to come back?