Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[The Architect]

This is probably a question for the modders, but the ability to produce low boots has disappeared from my DF. I don't know what file or files to change to fix this. This is only happening in my Orc Mod folder, and it's very annoying as I prefer to produce low boots. According to the wiki, high boots are nothing but a heavier (and thus undesirable) version.

I have been making due with high boots of course, but when I finally got around to trying to fix this minor annoyance myself I can't figure out what to change. What controls this? Entity.txt hasn't been altered, and low boots are still listed as their common footwear.

[Derakon]

As I understand it, high boots actually provide more protection than low boots. Anyone care to state authoritatively either way?

It's also my understanding that while you're guaranteed to be able to produce armor for each body part, sometimes your civ doesn't learn to make all the different types of armor for each body part when there's more than one option. So in modded games with breastplates, for example, dwarves don't always learn to make plate armor (the other plate-level armor that covers the torso). Or in games with many different helm types, you might not be able to make great helms, or something like that. I don't know why this would be the case, though.

[Footkerchief]

^^^ That could be it too.  I don't know what comes into play when there's multiple armor types for a body part.

Check the section of your entity_default.txt that relates to dwarf boots.  This part:

Code: [Select]

[SHOES:ITEM_SHOES_BOOTS:COMMON]
[SHOES:ITEM_SHOES_BOOTS_LOW:COMMON]

If low boots have UNCOMMON or RARE, that would be why they aren't showing up.  Some civs won't have them.

[The Architect]

Well, like I told you, the entity files are intact. It seems that as stated above, sometimes your civilization is just stupid.

And according to the wiki, no, high boots don't provide more protection. They're just heavier. That's not to say that I know if the wiki is correct or not, but I assume it is based on values given by Toady and not assumptions.

[Neruz]

A quick check shows that they do indeed provide the same level of protection.


It's possible your home civ doesn't know how to make low boots; COMMON means just that; the item is common, but there is a small chance it won't exist in certain civs.

[Dwaref]

High boots have upstep 1. Low boots don't have upstep.
Upstep means that it protects extremities one step up.

A low boot protects only the foot. A high boot protects the foot and the lower leg.
A glove protects only the hand, a gauntlet protects the hand and the lower arm.

Plate armor as another example, has mainblock and secondblock for upper and lower body i guess.
It also has both upstep and lbstep, which protect upper arms and upper legs respectivily.

Did you guys really think that the whole of arms and legs were left unprotected and that you wouldn't notice? Go raw-diving and don't rely too much on a wiki. Hell, it's yours to update if you feel that it is neccecary. I am one of those editing the armor article, but i didnt think that i'd have to add something as obvious as that bigger boots are better than smaller. Didn't think that people would blindly follow it like a bible or something either.

[Neruz]

So that's what upstep does. I always assumed it was an outdated tag.

[The Architect]

Well, I for one possess no supernatural or paranormal abilities; thus I had no way of knowing that. The wiki needs improvements in many areas, especially the weapons and combat areas. There is a lot of information that should be made available to the public, and some incorrect opinions are stated there as facts or suggestions, such as training wrestling first.

Some people do follow it like the bible even where it's wrong. But in some cases there's nothing else to look at. There isn't even a handy index of threads or official comments and info given by Toady or discovered by others anywhere to be found. Heck, there isn't even an explanation of what "70/70" means in the armor power.

[KenboCalrissian]

A new player is going to follow the Wiki like it's bible until proven otherwise.  The Wiki is the most easily accessible instruction manual for a newbie (I'm not counting the one included with the game, because the details aren't as thorough and navigation requires learning the controls first), and errors in the Wiki create problems in newb fortresses.  Brand new players typically won't start playing by searching the forums, which isn't easy.  There's a lot of sifting through false hits involved, a problem that the Wiki fortunately does not have.  So, you can't blame anybody for taking the Wiki's word for it; it's supposed to be an accurate source of information, and if it isn't, that isn't the reader's fault!

If the Wiki doesn't say something "obvious," it needs to be updated for new players.  Obvious to an experienced player is far and above different from obvious to a new player.  And there's different levels of experience; I, for one, am not about to go "raw diving" because I'm personally not too interested in modding.  I've never even heard of "upstep" until now, but it sounds like something I should have been aware of a long time ago, so it should have been either in the Wiki or the game's instruction manual.  Expecting a casual player to go digging through the raws to obtain understanding of crucial elements like this is just plain ignorant.  And in the case of this example, I see a couple other experienced players who didn't know what it is, so... obvious to you isn't obvious to everyone.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Yes, I'm still miffed about the "minimal leakage" claim in the pump stack section.  That claim cost me three dwarves, and it would have cost me an entire 10-year old fortress had I not prepared for it with dual emergency shut-off levers.

[pushy]

Well, I for one possess no supernatural or paranormal abilities; thus I had no way of knowing that.

You possess access to the wiki, therefore access to http://dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Armor_Tokens where you'll find some info on upstep, with an example of its use being given (which is more than you can say for some things in the wiki)

The wiki needs improvements in many areas, especially the weapons and combat areas.

For the past year there's been little to no point in fleshing out the combat stuff in the wiki beyond what little we already knew, since we all knew combat was going to be getting a massive overhaul in the next version. Granted, we probably weren't expecting the new version to take quite as long to develop as it has done, but all the same, as soon as the new version is released there's going to be a crapload of stuff from the wiki about combat that will be outdated.

There is a lot of information that should be made available to the public

A lot is, but you've got to poke around a wee bit to find it, as stuff has a tendency to only be mentioned once or twice rather than being mentioned in every single "relevant" article.

and some incorrect opinions are stated there as facts or suggestions, such as training wrestling first.

Nothing wrong with opinions being offered as suggestions for something, so long as you mention it's just a suggestion. Pages like http://dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Starting_build_design are testament to that.

[Draco18s]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Yes, I'm still miffed about the "minimal leakage" claim in the pump stack section.  That claim cost me three dwarves, and it would have cost me an entire 10-year old fortress had I not prepared for it with dual emergency shut-off levers.

What?  I don't see that anywhere.

[The Architect]

Same. I didn't even find an article on pump stacks.

Well, Pushy, Dwaref's post was a little caustic. Those who haven't extensively navigated the wiki, and even those who have, can't know about every single page. The wiki needs a lot of overhaul, but it makes sense to hold off until the next version appears.

[KenboCalrissian]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Yes, I'm still miffed about the "minimal leakage" claim in the pump stack section.  That claim cost me three dwarves, and it would have cost me an entire 10-year old fortress had I not prepared for it with dual emergency shut-off levers.

What?  I don't see that anywhere.

That's because I fixed it today   Check the file history.

[Dwaref]

Dwaref's post was a little caustic.

I don't mean to be unhelpful or mean-spirited. However when people take a personal experience of facts and present them as such, placing any and all responsibility regarding their accuracy in the hands of a text that is open to interpretation(or in this case, even editing), that just gets me going.
I consider it a height of irresponsibility to be frank.

I'm likewise discomforted with that my somewhat incomplete table with armor materials and armor classes have stood as long as it has. People are afraid to alter and/or improve things. What i originally did was to merge the clothing and armor sections, after that the article has grown, but hasn't really altered or removed old content.
Can't help to think of it as some creepy worship, much the same mechanism that fouls up religion.

[The Architect]

Lol. By what fouls up religion, you mean placing tradition before truth? Quite a comparison.

Well, I will do my best to help out when it's time, if I'm still around. I expect to be.