Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[ChampionHyena]

The mighty dwarven fortress of Shetbetholtar is a veritable utopia, having enjoyed a ten year golden age of peace and prosperity (technically, it's enjoyed ten years of "barely escaping annihilation," but that's peace and prosperity by dwarven standards). Year after year, the goblin hordes march to its mighty gates to plunder the treasures within, and they are struck down by the fortress's mighty champions and their war hammers, their defenses bolstered by rows of fiendish traps.

There is, however, a host of vile creatures against whom Shetbetholtar has had no defense:

α

Yes, we've had carp problems. All of my fisherdwarves are dead, as are a few unlucky woodcutters and hunters and any dwarves who've tried to retrieve the equipment of the former three. I've forbidden said equipment and halted all logging by the riverside, and we've had no incidents since. Still, I'd like to be able to make use of the river beyond just feeding my well, and having these carp on my property anywhere makes me uneasy. It doesn't get cold enough for them to freeze to death, and trying to drain a body of water this huge seems impossible.

Time was, I'd load up my marksdwarves with ammo and station 'em close-ish to the river, hoping they'd shoot the bastards dead. Instead, they milled around, doing nothing, regardless of being set to engage dangerous animals. I don't quite know what the issue was, but they'd never open fire on them.

Lately: I've had a thought.

If I taught my hammerdwarves to swim, could they wade in and butcher all of them?

So, here's what I need to know... can dwarves be trained to swim? I know they can build up the "swimmer" skill, but I've never seen any allegations that this is put to use in Fortress Mode. What I want to know is whether a dwarf with sufficient swimmer skill will be able to navigate the river and fight in it. I'm perfectly capable of building a swimming pool (and in fact I may just do so for the hell of it, adding some needlessly elaborate ostentatiousness to the fortress), but I have no clue whether it'll be effective.

Is there anyone here who has tried this or something similar? Recommendations? Warnings?

Every carp must die!

[ManaUser]

The swimming skill definitely works somewhat fortress mode. Swimmers are better at avoiding drowning at least, but I suspect that they will never be truly comfortable in the water and won't enter it voluntarily and always try leave ASAP. Could be wrong though, I only experimented with this fairly briefly.

[ChampionHyena]

Hmm. But if they're military dwarves, and I stationed them there...?

[Duke 2.0]

 I must say, this thread inspired me to make some form of comic/animation showing a press conference by the sea declaring a country going to war with fish. All of them. Then a few seconds later a nuke goes off in the ocean behind them.

 But for your problem, you need enginerring marvels. First, a swim tank. The best way is to dump your military dwarves via bridge drop into a pool of 5/6 water with ramps surround it. They should recover and make their way out before they drown and gain some swimming skill. Do this a few times 'till they can all do what they do without drowning. Then you can move on to keeping them in there for a while with no escape, just sparring for a little bit. I don't know if they will pick up dumped food and drinks left in there, but it is a thought.

 Once they have gained sufficient swimming skill, build a similar contraption by the river that dumps the dwarves into the water via drawbridge. They should recover and proceed to murder everything. Then place some ramps and welcome them back.

 This is all because pathfinding won't even enter water.

[Foehamster]

Build a dwarven washing machine to teach them swimming.

Easy way-Meeting hall in a pool with ramped sides, fill so its full of lvl 4 and 5 water. (Pressure plates can keep it autofilled nicely.)

Slightly less easy way-Build a mechanism to briefly flood and then drain a meeting hall.  Can be automated with pressure plates and the like. (Draining the meeting hall quickly is important.)

For carp killing-Have at least 2 squads of marksdwarves.  Station one squad at one end of the river, the other on the far side.  Have them slowly sweep to the center so retreating carp are caught and killed in between. (make sure DWARVES WILL HARASS DANGEROUS ANIMALS is enabled for both squads.)

[Kanddak]

I don't recommend marksdwarves on the riverbanks. I've seen them run out of ammo and jump in to bludgeon carp with their crossbows. I've fought carp with marksdwarves, but I build an elevated platform overlooking the river.
You will benefit far more from digging ramps in the riverbank than from training swimmers.

Your best way to wipe out the carp will be to drain the river, which is not as hard as you think it is unless you have a major river.
Build a row of pumps across the upstream end of the river and direct the water somewhere sufficiently distant that it spreads out and evaporates without reaching the river.

[Malicus]

I don't recommend marksdwarves on the riverbanks. I've seen them run out of ammo and jump in to bludgeon carp with their crossbows.

They shouldn't do this if you don't tell them to chase their opponents.  That is, unless the fish DRAG them in...

[Skooma]

The first two or three death in my current fort were due to fish. I'm drawing up plans to drain the river. A chasm would be nice but I suppose but I have a valley that already has water in it which will have to do.

[ChampionHyena]

Your best way to wipe out the carp will be to drain the river, which is not as hard as you think it is unless you have a major river.
Build a row of pumps across the upstream end of the river and direct the water somewhere sufficiently distant that it spreads out and evaporates without reaching the river.

This is the problem with draining the river.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It's an eensy bit huge.

But for your problem, you need enginerring marvels. First, a swim tank. The best way is to dump your military dwarves via bridge drop into a pool of 5/6 water with ramps surround it. They should recover and make their way out before they drown and gain some swimming skill. Do this a few times 'till they can all do what they do without drowning. Then you can move on to keeping them in there for a while with no escape, just sparring for a little bit. I don't know if they will pick up dumped food and drinks left in there, but it is a thought.

Will specifying a pit/pond area and filling it to 4/6 and letting them stand in it aimlessly not work? I thought that was the simple way to do it.

For carp killing-Have at least 2 squads of marksdwarves.  Station one squad at one end of the river, the other on the far side.  Have them slowly sweep to the center so retreating carp are caught and killed in between. (make sure DWARVES WILL HARASS DANGEROUS ANIMALS is enabled for both squads.)

Honestly, I tried this before, and mostly I had bored, inattentive dwarves. I don't know what happened. Will dwarves use wooden/bone training bolts to kill wild animals, or should I start machining/trading for iron bolts?

[Kanddak]

No, that won't be difficult to drain.
It looks like you have water entering on the top and lower right, and leaving to the left.
Put wind-powered pumps by both inflows and just dig a 1-tile-wide dirt tunnel connecting the pumps to an opening at the lower left of the map. You'll get a lot of mud and a lot of dead fish.
All you have to do is divert all water entering the map, and the water already present will drain itself.

[ChampionHyena]

No, that won't be difficult to drain.
It looks like you have water entering on the top and lower right, and leaving to the left.
Put wind-powered pumps by both inflows and just dig a 1-tile-wide dirt tunnel connecting the pumps to an opening at the lower left of the map. You'll get a lot of mud and a lot of dead fish.
All you have to do is divert all water entering the map, and the water already present will drain itself.

My well is connected to this river (at the southwest side of the southmost triangle, you can see where I've opened the roof). If I drain it to kill all the carp, is there a way to... well... refill it? I don't wanna cut off my water supply. Any explicit instruction I can get would be awesome.

[Stargrasper]

No, that won't be difficult to drain.
It looks like you have water entering on the top and lower right, and leaving to the left.
Put wind-powered pumps by both inflows and just dig a 1-tile-wide dirt tunnel connecting the pumps to an opening at the lower left of the map. You'll get a lot of mud and a lot of dead fish.
All you have to do is divert all water entering the map, and the water already present will drain itself.

My well is connected to this river (at the southwest side of the southmost triangle, you can see where I've opened the roof). If I drain it to kill all the carp, is there a way to... well... refill it? I don't wanna cut off my water supply. Any explicit instruction I can get would be awesome.

Drain the river and take precautions against more fish.  By precautions, I mean I've heard that if you build fortifications at the edge of the map, it prevents that tiny little fish problem from recurring.  After that, just let the river return to normal to fill the well and it will be built to stop fish.  Except vermin fish, which is what you actually fish and eat, so you like them.

[Retro]

Fun way to drain the river and let it refill: Under wherever water enters on the map, have miners go under it and dig a tunnel (as wide as the river bed is, probably fourish tiles) to the edge of the map. Smooth out the very edge, and carve it into fortifications - this will allow water to drain out forever, a fun little trick. Build some floodgates, and connect them to a lever, then pull it so they open. Have the miners go back and upwards-ramp dig out the ceiling above them / floor of the river. The water will proceed to rush down and drain itself right back out. If there's no more water entering the river, it will (eventually) drain out. Then send the military in and have your fun. To refill, pull the lever and the floodgates return, stopping the drainage. Presto, friendly river!

[BlazingDav]

Would it not be more dwarven to harness the evil of carps into a somewhat cruel and unusual defense?

With fortification dropping and channeling you could section of populations of carp and then channel ditches into your entrance, covered by bars, hatches or grates, linked to a lever or pressure plate, when a siege comes, invite them in and when they are halfway along, open the coverings and let the carp say hi to the landlubbers. (makes the gobbos regret skipping swimming class)

As for fortification dropping if I'm correct it should be able to work like this

D_FFFFF
X
U_
    RRRRR

Not a perfect diagram, but F is a fortification, R is the river, X, an up or down stair, U an upstair, D a down stair, with _ being floors, by removing the upper one the fortifications will drop and block the river (may crush a carp, but c'est la vie) flow will continue so you don't get any disasters, but you can selectively continue this process nudging the carp along to their new home

And I just realised constructions dismantle on falling... so thats a no go... unless we bring in some obsidian casting and therefore magma, practically a megaproject in itself given the likelyhood of death =/

This must be done me thinks

[Kanddak]

My well is connected to this river (at the southwest side of the southmost triangle, you can see where I've opened the roof). If I drain it to kill all the carp, is there a way to... well... refill it? I don't wanna cut off my water supply. Any explicit instruction I can get would be awesome.

Make the water run into a hole below its original level so that it can't get back out again. Or just go without. You're not depriving your fort of booze, are you? Of course not. So only criminals and cripples would die.
You can refill the river by turning off your drainage pumps and allowing water to enter the map again.

The "undermine the river to drain it through a map edge fortification" thing may be a little finicky; water only goes off the map edge under diffusion rather than pressure, so you may end up with water flowing out more slowly than it's flowing in. Make sure your drain leads to a row of map edge fortifications at least as wide as the original river.