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Author Topic: Carving Sheer Cliff Walls?  (Read 2922 times)

MarkOfZero

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Carving Sheer Cliff Walls?
« on: November 13, 2009, 09:37:51 pm »

Anyone know an easy way to make this? http://imgur.com/a2dYZ.png?

I want the entrance of my fortress to be a courtyard surrounded by cliffs that I have carved into the mountainside. My plan right now is to start at the top and use channel row by row until I hit the bottom. This will take FOREVER though.

I can't just spam channel over the huge (square) area on each Z level because the dwarves end up leaving random patches floating in the air and/or collapsing a portion of the cave.

So is there any fast, safe way to do this?
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Kulantan

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Re: Carving Sheer Cliff Walls?
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2009, 09:41:56 pm »

Make up/down stairs first on every layer, then channel the stairs out one layer at a time starting at the top (on the bottom designate up only stairs and remove them normally).
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The Architect

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Re: Carving Sheer Cliff Walls?
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2009, 09:47:12 pm »

Yes. I didn't look at your image (forgive me) but you can channel out a large square volume of stone for a courtyard entrance (I did the same thing for a fort) easily with a cave-in.

Step 1: Designate it with Dig on all levels you wish to clear, and make sure there is access for your dwarves to dig it.

Step 2: At the second-highest level, place a support near the center of the area.

Step 3: build a lever in a safe place (not where the stone will fall) and attach it to the support.

Step 4: At the highest level, channel out the area immediately surrounding the are you intend to drop (it should then be suspended and resting on the lever).

Step 5: Get everyone the heck out of the way, and Pull the Lever. The cave-in will fall all the way down through the entire courtyard, clearing all of the floors beneath it.

Notes: Of course if the area of the top level is irregularly shaped, you may need to repeat this process with multiple cave-ins to clear the floors on all levels. Alternately you can choose to cave in the highest square covering a large area, then channel out whatever remains.
Also, you can avoid digging out one level and the cave-in will stop there. In this way you can use the first level of the courtyard and not worry about 2000tons of stone coming down on your dwarves' heads when you pull the lever. Or, you can clear the courtyard, draw enemies into it, and pull the lever for a lot of fun.
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The Architect

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Re: Carving Sheer Cliff Walls?
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2009, 09:49:11 pm »

Make up/down stairs first on every layer, then channel the stairs out one layer at a time starting at the top (on the bottom designate up only stairs and remove them normally).

If you want to do it purely with digging, it's better to dig ramps for the entire area starting at the top. Once the top level has been entirely dug, you dig the next level, etc. Ramps destroy the floor and wall above them without a cave-in. However, if you have an odd (non-natural) rock formation or you fail to dig consecutively from the top to the bottom, you can still have deadly cave-ins.
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MarkOfZero

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Re: Carving Sheer Cliff Walls?
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2009, 09:57:56 pm »

Well these sure beat my 'channel one row at a time' technique haha. Thanks alot!
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slink

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Re: Carving Sheer Cliff Walls?
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2009, 10:45:05 pm »

I didn't look at your map, but if there are any trees in the area, cut them down before making the ramps.  If a tree is still standing, the Dwarves will carve ramps around the spot with the tree and it will cave in once it is unsupported from all sides.  I learned this the hard way.   :)
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dragon0421

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Re: Carving Sheer Cliff Walls?
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2009, 02:46:57 am »

If you plan on smoothing/engraving the cliff face, carve scaffolding first. Do this by lining the entire face with up/down stair-cases and up-stairs at the bottom. When done smoothing/engraving, you can safely channel away the scaffolding.
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Hound

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Re: Carving Sheer Cliff Walls?
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2009, 04:42:20 am »

Also, if you're going to be doing a huge cave-in make sure none of the tiles below the floor of your courtyard are dug out, because the falling rock will punch through floors if there is open space beneath it.
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Leonidas

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Re: Carving Sheer Cliff Walls?
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2009, 04:44:05 am »

Considering the volume of stone you want to eliminate, I would use a controlled cave-in as architect suggests.  But your design presents two fun difficulties:

1.  Your courtyard will be indoors, if I'm interpreting your picture correctly, which means that you may have trouble keeping your dwarves under control in a siege.

2.  Your courtyard will contain huge amounts of stone.  If you don't want that and don't have the manpower to haul it all away, then maybe the ramp-down approach is better.  Check me on this, but I think that digging ramps and then eliminating them with d-z leaves no stone behind.
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The Architect

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Re: Carving Sheer Cliff Walls?
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2009, 06:28:43 am »

It leaves a ton of stone behind. Depending on what conditions it's done in, it can leave more than normal.

If smoothing the cliff face, again I suggest ramps. Faster and more effective than stairs. However, ramps are buggy and you must always finish the topmost z-level first.
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BurnedToast

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Re: Carving Sheer Cliff Walls?
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2009, 07:03:04 pm »

Carve away the z-level your entrance is on, then use the power of make-believe to pretend it's carved away above it too.

Yeah I'm lazy.
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dragon0421

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Re: Carving Sheer Cliff Walls?
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2009, 07:18:21 pm »

If smoothing the cliff face, again I suggest ramps. Faster and more effective than stairs. However, ramps are buggy and you must always finish the topmost z-level first.

They're not buggy, they're just difficult to manage. Ramps should be used to remove the bulk of the face, but leave stairs for the last row of each level. Smoothing takes awhile, so speed of removal is not the issue. Stairs are hassle free, which makes this method more efficient.
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kefkakrazy

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Re: Carving Sheer Cliff Walls?
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2009, 07:25:12 pm »

If it's just one or two levels, I usually use ramps to clear things away. It's MUCH easier with mountain layers; soil layers usually have trees which will cause complications (they cause caveins if ramped out). If I'm wanting to carve something out of a pretty big wall, it's easier to just cave it all in.
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Canadark

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Re: Carving Sheer Cliff Walls?
« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2009, 09:31:02 pm »

Wow. I've always just used channeling. Now I know that all those miners died in vain.
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The Architect

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Re: Carving Sheer Cliff Walls?
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2009, 09:46:06 pm »

If smoothing the cliff face, again I suggest ramps. Faster and more effective than stairs. However, ramps are buggy and you must always finish the topmost z-level first.

They're not buggy, they're just difficult to manage. Ramps should be used to remove the bulk of the face, but leave stairs for the last row of each level. Smoothing takes awhile, so speed of removal is not the issue. Stairs are hassle free, which makes this method more efficient.

You're right about "Smoothing", I misunderstood. But you're wrong to say that ramps are not buggy, in fact to my knowledge they are the most buggy thing in the game. Being able to set a direction for them will hopefully fix this in the future.
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