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[shadow_archmagi]

Then all we'd need is a bit of AI so dwarves will "clean" stockpiles and move all the stone off, just like they move all the stone when constructing things.

[Derakon]

By stockpiles, actually, I was referring to if you have stone stockpiles set up. The only situations I can think of where you care about displaying stone are:

1) when you need it as an input to some other task (masonry, stonecrafting, hurling at goblins, etc.) and want to know what's in the area, and

2) when you're mining it out of the wall and want to know how "well" you're doing at preserving useful rock.

[Alex Encandar]

quote:Originally posted by Wiles:
<STRONG>Construction designation is the biggest hurdle for me. Building a large aboveground castle is going to give me carpal tunnel syndrome.    

(check out my sig for more info)

[Drunken]

quote:Originally posted by Mikademus:
<STRONG>stones is perhaps THE gameplay problem atm. It causes logistical problems (area clearing, order of lugging, merchandise priority), which frustrates gameplay and distrupts the intended game flow.</STRONG>

I have said it before and I'll say it again: The greatest problem with mining and tunneling in real life is the logistical problem of moving all the excess stone out. This should always be a problem in a game where the chief gameplay involves mining and tunneling otherwise you are just throwing away realism in favour of simplicity, something dwarf fortress is great for never doing.

I would support certain upgrades to the tools for managing this logistical task but I will be VERY upset if anything is implemented that a) enables mining to bo done with no rocks dropping or b) enables storing infinite rock in a single square.
(Yes I am already upset about b) and the dump zone system.)
Like I said in the other thread I want to see it get harder, I want rock to disrupt movement and I want rock to drop from every dig sqaure. I also want a form of rock that can't be used for anything at all and just gets in the way.

Am I the only person who likes realism? Go dig an underground tunnel network in your back yard and tell me how all the dirt you removed just turned transparent and insubstantial so you could move through it and keep digging. I would also like to hear about how you carried the stuff out and it suddenly became a giant carveable block.

[Draco18s]

quote:Originally posted by Drunken:
<STRONG>Like I said in the other thread I want to see it get harder, I want rock to disrupt movement and I want rock to drop from every dig sqaure. I also want a form of rock that can't be used for anything at all and just gets in the way.</STRONG>

You're probably the only person.  As much as I like realism it makes mining INCREDIBLY slow, and we're already looking at a Dwarf-Day per square.

[Necronopticous]

Stones are not a gameplay problem; they are the key components of a very misunderstood gameplay feature that works just fine as-is if you know what you're doing.

[Drunken]

I know I'm the only person.
Also a day for mining out a 2x2x2 meter cube (8m3) with a pick is realistic, 8 cubic meters of granite or obsidian on the other hand could take weeks...

[Dorten]

quote:Originally posted by Drunken:
<STRONG>I know I'm the only person.</STRONG>

Cheer up, you are not alone!

[JustinKace]

One of my chief frustrations is the apparent lack of logic dwarves apply to the sequence they carry out repetitive tasks in. For example, when mining or building a wall, the dwarf will dig/build four squares, then rather than continuing in the same location, walk 50 meters away to dig/build in another location, only to stop after 4 more squares and go back to the original location.

In a similar vein, crafters that source materialfrom the Z level directly below their workshop rather than the stockpile created for the purpose which is adjacent to his workshop.

In fact (and I don't imagine for a minute that this hasn't been suggested already) being able to link a workshop to a specific stockpile would be so incredibly fantastic it makes my ears hurt!

[Boethiah]

quote:Originally posted by Drunken:
<STRONG>

Am I the only person who likes realism? Go dig an underground tunnel network in your back yard and tell me how all the dirt you removed just turned transparent and insubstantial so you could move through it and keep digging. I would also like to hear about how you carried the stuff out and it suddenly became a giant carveable block.</STRONG>

There IS a line between gameplay and realism and this crosses it a bit too far. In games its always good to have a reasonable balance between the two, you shouldnt sacrifice one for the the other. So when it comes to making digging as real as possible this doesn't actually "help" gameplay it hinders it.

[ March 18, 2008: Message edited by: Boethiah ]

[Draco18s]

quote:Originally posted by Boethiah:
<STRONG>There IS a line between gameplay and realism and this crosses it a bit too far. In games its always good to have a reasonable balance between the two, you shouldnt sacrifice one for the the other.</STRONG>

This is why dwarves don't go to the bathroom.

quote:Originally posted by JustinKace:
<STRONG>In fact (and I don't imagine for a minute that this hasn't been suggested already) being able to link a workshop to a specific stockpile would be so incredibly fantastic it makes my ears hurt!</STRONG>

It has, at least once.  Couldn't tell you the name of the thread though.

[ March 18, 2008: Message edited by: Draco18s ]

[zagibu]

quote:Originally posted by Drunken:
<STRONG>I know I'm the only person.
Also a day for mining out a 2x2x2 meter cube (8m3) with a pick is realistic, 8 cubic meters of granite or obsidian on the other hand could take weeks...</STRONG>

Why do you think dwarves are as weak as you puny fleshling? They are BORN to mine. Also, according to a fact that is (hopefully) soon going canon, the beards of dwarves act as a chemical alcohol fuel cell, supplying them with lots of extra power.

[Sylverone]

The way I see it, realism should be kept as long as the problem can be dealt with by improving gameplay. In this particular instance I believe that improving gameplay could fix the problem, so I'm going to side with Drunken. With some better tools, it won't be such a hassle that it detracts from the fun factor of DF (every game should have obstacles, they just need to be manageable to a certain extent).

[Crafty Barnardo]

My only major problem with stone is that it is always displayed on top even when there are other things on the tile.  This is mostly a problem when designating a channel.  If there is a stone on the tile (or possibly other items, I'm not sure) the channel designation is invisible.  You just have to click on it and cross your fingers that you clicked on the correct square and not the adjacent one that will cause the entire floor to cave in.

[zagibu]

quote:Originally posted by Sylverone:
<STRONG>The way I see it, realism should be kept as long as the problem can be dealt with by improving gameplay.</STRONG>

Ok, please tell me a realistic mining speed of a dwarf, and also what sources you base this information on.