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[Pandarsenic]

Yeah it's the same for me. Keeps timing out on me.

And for me.

Jim: If our test subjects die too fast, their opponents are probably scum. Would you like me to hold your hand or stop using pronouns? Honestly, a little effort, please.

And honestly? I'm not scum. I'm just saying, this is honestly the best use I can think of for them. It's not like they're going to help us find scum. Hostility to people who are unhelpful isn't being scum, it's being sick of their bullshit.

[Halmie]

Are PM's allowed between townies?

Jim: First you accuse me of bandwagon then you say ok its a half bandwagon then you ask why I said I voted first. huh?

I am sticking my vote on Org unless he does some serious scumhunting to prove he is worth not testing. This is not a death warrant unless ExKirby is a power role. And why are you and Janus so protective of Org anyway?

[PrinnyBaal]

While yes, we'll see stats sliding up and down, and one person's victory will be harder to claim one way or another; BUT: We still get the exchanges, don't we? The description of whether an attack broke through, whether it was a killing blow or there were more shots...

Not only that; but isn't it rather awkward to start claiming it was the Cabal's superior stats any time someone wins? 11 to 10 isn't a spectacular advantage, and the randomness... well, I foresee problems already with a statement like that.

Still, if there are more shots we can tell something already, if three attacks appeared to hit we can tell something already; That's because we have math, we have formulas, we can tell what the basic % chance of a win, and not just that, but also a particular attack hitting are. So yes and no.

Not only that, but if the whole Cabal openly assists on the same side as their allies won't we notice? That's exactly the sort of thing I would hope they would do; sure, they can claim they have reasons that they would assist but eventually it'll come down to arguing about who's appearing to have reasons and who's actually being honest anyway when we're trying to get figure out who else to test for Cabal strength for our next duel, right?

Perhaps all this is just my perspective on this, but really I just think it's generally true.

Sorry to distract on this end, but in all honesty, I feel I should get this out of the way for me ahead of time since I clearly have a different perspective it would seem.

PPE: It says so in the first post, as far as I can tell. That's why I PMed a bunch of people.

[Neruz]

- vote Neruz for joining the Org/ExKirby wagon right after Jim Grovvester (always thought it was Groovestar, oops), RedWarrior, and Kashyyk were arguing about just that and for not really having much content yet either

I suggest you check again; i voted Kirby into the ring right at the start of the game, it's just that the game had to be restarted and thus my vote didn't count, as the game was restarted while i was asleep, i didn't get to restate my vote until after everyone else had jumped on the wagon.

[Kashyyk]

Someone mentioned somewhere (I think it was Alex) that I was acting scummy for dropping my vote on Org so quickly.

This is because I don't want to be a hypocrite. I know I lurk, so I can't vote other people for lurking. See what I'm getting at?

[ExKirby]

Sorry I was asleep. Unvote JanusTwoFace.

Vote ExKirby ofcourse. He still wants to go in the ring. Just doesn't want to have all the assists against him.

Which is what makes me think he might be scum. Cabal's native power boost is enough to win if the assists are fairly even, but if all are piled onto one then the Cabal will still lose.

I'd die either way if votes were piled on me, and I want to die fairly.

Bitch, unvote me or give me a good reason not to use them as test subjects. It's not like they'll help us any other way

That's an odd response. Test subjects for what?

Anyway, here's a reason to unvote them: they're not guilty of anything other than being bad players at this point.

I get you're fed up with them, but that's no reason to carry the grudge you have against them (which you make known just about everywhere in this subforum) into this game.

Halmie, you're guilty of joining the Org-ExKirby bandwagon.

Sorry I was asleep. Unvote JanusTwoFace.

Vote ExKirby ofcourse. He still wants to go in the ring. Just doesn't want to have all the assists against him.

We might as well make sure that ExKirby wanting to be in the ring is the case.

ExKirby: Do you still want to go into the ring, or was my attempt to get you to change this tradition you keep perpetuating useless?

Back to you, Halmie. Is there any particular reason why you think ExKirby not wanting the assists to be piled against him is a scummy thing to do?

I do want to stay in the ring. I think it's become a habit of mine =3

[JanusTwoface]

Yeah it's the same for me. Keeps timing out on me.

And for me.

Jim: If our test subjects die too fast, their opponents are probably scum. Would you like me to hold your hand or stop using pronouns? Honestly, a little effort, please.

And honestly? I'm not scum. I'm just saying, this is honestly the best use I can think of for them. It's not like they're going to help us find scum. Hostility to people who are unhelpful isn't being scum, it's being sick of their bullshit.

Unfortunately, I agree with both of you.  I agree that Org is probably not going to be otherwise useful (Org, now would be a good chance to prove me wrong) and that ExKirby seems to happy to be going into the room.

However, with the lowered Cabal stats and doubled health, I have a feeling that we will not be seeing any quickly dying opponents this time around.  Perhaps a tendency towards Cabal winning, but nothing so obvious.

- vote Neruz for joining the Org/ExKirby wagon right after Jim Grovvester (always thought it was Groovestar, oops), RedWarrior, and Kashyyk were arguing about just that and for not really having much content yet either

I suggest you check again; i voted Kirby into the ring right at the start of the game, it's just that the game had to be restarted and thus my vote didn't count, as the game was restarted while i was asleep, i didn't get to restate my vote until after everyone else had jumped on the wagon.

I didn't actually notice that because I didn't sign in until after the game started for the second time.  That still doesn't change the fact that when you cast your new votes for Org and ExKirby it was just after the discussion about someone else doing exactly the same thing without even commenting on it.  Which makes me think that you weren't actually paying attention to what is going on.

So, nothing changed between the two (other than you wanting to vote for Org instead of Pandarsenic)?  This seems odd, there were a lot of posts between the two.


So, I've done what I usually do and checked the posting records of everyone this game:

Spoiler: Post records (click to show/hide)

0 / 0 - MagmaDeath
0 / 3 - Neruz
1 / 5 - Kashyyk
1 / 7 - Org
1 / 7 - ExKirby
2 / 3 - RedWarrior0
2 / 3 - Frelock
3 / 7 - Halmie
4 / 4 - rickvoid
4 / 6 - PrinnyBaal
4 / 7 - RandomNumberGenerator
5 / 9 - Pandarsenic
6 / 7 - Jim Groovester
7 / 8 - JanusTwoFace

Numbers are useful posts (from my point of view) / total posts.  It's entirely possible that I've missed something and 'useful' is subjective, but I think these are pretty close.

Anyways, MagmaDeath hasn't said anything yet and IMO, Neruz, Kashyyk, Org, and ExKirby havn't really posted much of use.  Please don't lurk.  If you're Tower, it really helps the the Cabal a heck of a lot more than it helps us.  If you're Cabal, it's just annoying, please don't do it.

Also, Mephansteras, Neruz is missing from the original post and could we get a prod on MagmaDeath?

[RandomNumberGenerator]

Hmm... alright, I'm unvoting Janus. He's done enough with that analysis to make he think that it's not best to send him into the ring just yet.

Still keeping my vote on ExKirby. If he wants to go into the ring, I say let him.

I was thinking about voting Org, but as this is par for the course for him, I'll let him slide this time. Instead, I would like to know why Kashyyk is acting a little funny:

Someone mentioned somewhere (I think it was Alex) that I was acting scummy for dropping my vote on Org so quickly.

This is because I don't want to be a hypocrite. I know I lurk, so I can't vote other people for lurking. See what I'm getting at?

So why did you vote for him in the first place?

[RandomNumberGenerator]

Ah, I meant to put a vote on Kashyyk. Oh well.

[ExKirby]

@Janus-That's me for you. Totally useless. But I'd like to see Org's "useful" post.

[Org]

See how fast they die against people. If they die too fast they're probably scum.

How am I more scummy?

If who dies too fast who's scum?

As for your scumminess, Pandarsenic, it might have to do with how you don't care whether Org or ExKirby are Tower. And it might have something to do with you starting, or at the very least, encouraging a bandwagon on the two just because you didn't like them.

So; wouldn't the best method of finding Cabal actually to be to let people to assist the one they believe is the townie; and try and refine our cabal hunting speed through a combination of that, as well as things like what people say, and the various other things.

No. Letting people assist how they please muddies up the results of the duel even more than the random nature of its combat does.

Say a Tower and a Cabal are duking it out. The Cabal will invent some reason to help their partner, while everybody else splits their assists evenly between the two duelists. The Cabal will win. Can you attribute the win to his boosted stats? No, of course not, because he had all those assists. His victory means nothing in terms of Towerness or Cabalness.

Let's say the same situation occurs, but everybody agrees to not assist. The Cabal wins, and he used the wrong element. Can you attribute that to his boosted stats? Not necessarily, but it's a better indicator that he might be Cabal than if everybody assisted freely.

It's therefore more informative to arrange assists as a group.

You see what I'm getting at? Last round, we arranged our assists like that, and we did a pretty decent job finding scum, even though Org still won. It's not like that was the only reason for our success in finding scum, though, but it may have helped.

I didn't say it was scummy. Tests need to be done and if ExKirby wants to be part of it I'm cool with that. Anyway it may mean he doesn't have a power role and is cabal or

And I'm pretty sure I was the first one to vote for anyone. If ExKirby doesn't want to be in the ring I will retract my vote.

I'm tired and it seems like whoever I vote for is a scumtell. Org has a history of being unhelpful. If we can use him for tests maybe he can help in another way.

You were the first to vote for Org, but you were the latest person to vote for ExKirby. So, a half bandwagon.

I don't really care that you were the first to vote, or that you were the first to vote for Org. It's the reasons that are important to me. I find it suspicious, however, that you would tout that you were first to vote. Were you trying to avoid being accused of being on a bandwagon by pointing out that you were first? Was it a Cabal scheme you cooked up?

I understand your opinion of Org, and everybody else's for that matter, but has he really done anything in this game that makes you think he's Cabal? If not, I think you should seriously reexamine your reasons for voting for him.

Thanks Jim. Yeah, halmie, WHY DO YOU THINK I AM SCUM? CANT HAVE A POWER ROLE CAN I?

Org's. Useful. Post.
I AM ALWAYS USEFUL.
http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44583.msg879758#msg879758

Yeah, but I must say, half of you voting me dont have a good reason. Bandwagoners.

[Frelock]

I'm sorry Org, but that "useful" post that you pointed out consisted of you:
1. Stating that there was a redundant post which I missed.
2. Placing an FoS on someone who was voting for you.
3. Pointing out that Kahsyyk is also a lurker.

I'll admit, 3 was useful.  Not extremely significant, but useful.  You're also getting mildly worked up about all this.  However, I won't hold that against you; it must be frustrating to have everyone call you useless (probably worse than being lynched for being scummy).

However, since Janus pointed it out, and I'm starting to agree with Alex on the whole "lynch all lurkers" policy, I'm going to Unvote Org and Vote Magmadeath

By the way, Org, are you voting for anyone besides Magamadeath at the moment?  If not, why?

[ExKirby]

Yeah, I only (un)vote Org because he lurks. However, seeing as Magma hasn't evemn posted a single thing since the begining, I want to see him in.

[Kashyyk]

RNG:

I think I just got caught up in the moment. Everyone was voting for him so I did as well. Crappy reason I know, but it's the only one I actually have.

[Org]

I'm sorry Org, but that "useful" post that you pointed out consisted of you:
1. Stating that there was a redundant post which I missed.
2. Placing an FoS on someone who was voting for you.
3. Pointing out that Kahsyyk is also a lurker.

I'll admit, 3 was useful.  Not extremely significant, but useful.  You're also getting mildly worked up about all this.  However, I won't hold that against you; it must be frustrating to have everyone call you useless (probably worse than being lynched for being scummy).

However, since Janus pointed it out, and I'm starting to agree with Alex on the whole "lynch all lurkers" policy, I'm going to Unvote Org and Vote Magmadeath

By the way, Org, are you voting for anyone besides Magamadeath at the moment?  If not, why?

Kirby