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[RandomNumberGenerator]

Sorry I was asleep. Unvote JanusTwoFace.

Vote ExKirby ofcourse. He still wants to go in the ring. Just doesn't want to have all the assists against him.

Which is what makes me think he might be scum. Cabal's native power boost is enough to win if the assists are fairly even, but if all are piled onto one then the Cabal will still lose.

[PrinnyBaal]

Yay! I received vote based love back from RNG- But in all honestly, it's fine, I don't need it. Thanks for the affection.

Anyway, I'd like to point out that technically, near everything that's going to happen day 1 is going to be policy on some level, although to be honest, the piles revolving around Kirb and Org are both rather full of oddities. A bunch of people started backing down off of Kirb, but it seems that every time someone would get back and replace a vote. Huh. I'm not used to it being so perfect timing as that.

... Well, I guess I may as well ask more questions for people to answer; nothing directed atm, but I'd like everyone to answer if they can, as these questions will be important for one method of scum hunting.

1: Is it better for the town to leave matches between pairs of suspected scum evenly balanced in terms of assists; Please explain your answer.

2: If a player is unsuspected for being scum, and is in with someone who is suspected for being scum, how should you help; Please explain your answer.

3: What implications do turn 1 to 2 victories have on the victor; If they used their opponent's element? If they used a neutral element? If they used the opposite element?

4: What implications does a particularly long or drawn out fight imply for the victor; If they used their opponent's element? If they used a neutral element? If they used the opposite element?

5: Do your homework; If you check, for this game health was increased, which should cause many battles to be slightly more drawn out. For that matter, one other thing changed notably that should be factored in, what is this?

... And PPE: You two, you do realize he's pointed out it's tradition at this point; as in, most people are going to vote him in anyway? Look at the votes so far day 1; He only came on after he had a couple votes already. I appreciate the thought, you put into voting him, but it seems improperly biased still. Meh.

[Pandarsenic]

1: Is it better for the town to leave matches between pairs of suspected scum evenly balanced in terms of assists; Please explain your answer. Leave it balanced, that way whichever one lives is weakened.

2: If a player is unsuspected for being scum, and is in with someone who is suspected for being scum, how should you help; Please explain your answer. Depends how sure you are. If you're reasonably confident he's against scum, pump that sucker up. He's gonna need it.

3: What implications do turn 1 to 2 victories have on the victor; If they used their opponent's element? If they used a neutral element? If they used the opposite element?

4: What implications does a particularly long or drawn out fight imply for the victor; If they used their opponent's element? If they used a neutral element? If they used the opposite element? if they used their opponents element but still had a drawn out fight, they're probably a combat-oriented or Cabal Wizard. Neutral element, they're about evenly matched, so unless he was against a combat-oriented mage he's PROBABLY not Cabal. If he used the opposite element but still won after a while, he's probably not Cabal.

5: Do your homework; If you check, for this game health was increased, which should cause many battles to be slightly more drawn out. For that matter, one other thing changed notably that should be factored in, what is this? No idea, I wasn't alive in Wizard Duel 2 to remember its rules and I don't much care. I'm just working within the present ruleset.

This is all obvious or useless.

[JanusTwoface]

I've been away all day (checking up on my phone), so these are the responses I've had as I've been catching up on the thread.

Behold: An insane wall of text!

Summary (for those who don't want to read the full version):
- FoS Kashyyk, Pandarsenic, Frelock MagmaDeath, and Neruz for going for an (appearantly) well supported lynch right off the bat.  It looks like you are Cabal trying to get two Tower mages into the ring right off the bat and are going for easy targets.
- FoS Org for posting but nothing of real consequence (par for the course really, but that doesn't excuse it)
- RandomNumberGenerator and Kashyyk (at the very least) should go through and double check the rules again on healing between battles (at least I think I'm right, I'll go check too)

Mod: Mages start each battle with full health, correct?

Spoiler: Oh man this is long (click to show/hide)

JanusTwoFace: You're being awfully chatty for the RVS. Really, really chatty. What's going on? You're not Cabal trying to make yourself look good by trying to make the RVS somehow helpful, are you?

I was sleep deprived and trying to get people to be active (perhaps a little over hard).

I thought it would be fun to see two Fire Mages duke it out, assuming they choose fire as their element. I thought they would because of their names. Do you get my reasoning now?

I was mainly attacking you on a whim, there's not much to go on day 1.  That being said, I'm still going to keep the 'omission' in mind.

Well, I don't think I would have too much of an advantage, Their stat boosts seem to give them a pretty large advantage to start with,.
I'm going to stick OrgAnd ExKirby out there, since Org always lurks a ton, and ExKirby is just ExKirby...

The stat boost for the Cabal has been reduced to only +1 each IIRC and health has been doubled.  I haven't run any test battles yet (I hope to tomorrow) but I don't think that the Cabal will have nearly as crazy an advantage as before.

Also, FoS for going for an 'easy' set of targets.  I'm not saying that I would mind sending Org in for lurking (and he's been Cabal both games, not that that means anything) and ExKirby always seems to want in the circle, but this does look somewhat like a Cabal mage relying on public opinion to do his work and send two Tower mages into the ring.

"If anyone can tell me why I wouldn't want to see Org and ExKirby in the ring, I should like to know."

Pretty much ditto the same thing I just said to MagmaDeath.  FoS you as well.

Votecount before I say anything else!

You don't need a vote count to interact with people.  You really don't...

Oh, well if that's the case, I would throw the other guy in the ring. It's simple logic; the survivor of the fight will not have full health at the end, and it increases my chances of winning if he fights before I do.

Unless the rules have changed, mages regain full health between duals.  So it does acutally increase your chance of being declared the High Mage if you stay out of it, but not the way you think.

Also, there's a problem with your analysis.  Assume that you and the other town mage both follow your advice.  Then there's two votes on the Cabal mage and one on each of you.  The Cabal mage votes both of you and there's a 33% chance the two Tower mages fight to the death and the Cabal mage has a 50/50 chance of killing the winner by incapacitation.  Hopefully, the Tower mages could come to an agreement to avoid this situation, but still.  It's something to keep in mind.

Org is his usual lurker self, (admittedly I'm a lurker, but at least I try to be active) and ExKirby is just being weird in my opinion, anyway ExKirby, what makes you think that you will be able to survive enough duels if you start fighting at the beginning? o.O

Another person voting on Org and ExKirby.  FoS again.  Also, I think you are implying that fighting a second dual is harder than fighting one.  Granted, you have a better chance of losing by fighting more than one, but it's not because you are weaker after fighting a dual.

Kashyyk and Pandar are voting for the same people.

As are Frelock and MagmaDeath. Why are you singling out Kashyyk and Pandarsenic?

To be honest, I missed Frelock as well.

I shall place my two vote on Org and ExKirby, you cannot fight tradition.

Dude.  You're the 5th person to vote Org and ExKirby.  If that's not a bandwaggon by this point, I don't know what is.

I know. But to me I feel like I post more content. I'm most probably biased however, so we might need someone esle to comment on that.

Not really,

@Rick: ? No. FOS. because he didnt have a great reason.

"If anyone can tell me why I wouldn't want to see Org and ExKirby in the ring, I should like to know."

Still waiting.

As of this post, you've posted 5 times.  Of those, 3 were completely useless and 2 were sort of maybe kind of useful.  Post longer, more in depth posts please.

1: Is it better for the town to leave matches between pairs of suspected scum evenly balanced in terms of assists; Please explain your answer.

2: If a player is unsuspected for being scum, and is in with someone who is suspected for being scum, how should you help; Please explain your answer.

3: What implications do turn 1 to 2 victories have on the victor; If they used their opponent's element? If they used a neutral element? If they used the opposite element?

4: What implications does a particularly long or drawn out fight imply for the victor; If they used their opponent's element? If they used a neutral element? If they used the opposite element?

5: Do your homework; If you check, for this game health was increased, which should cause many battles to be slightly more drawn out. For that matter, one other thing changed notably that should be factored in, what is this?

1: Evenly balanced.  Easier to statistically analyze.

2: I would assist the less scummy one unless the difference isn't that much.  Duals are our lynches, if we don't think someone should be lynched, we should think twice before putting them in the ring.

3: I don't think that this will happen as much this time around with the boosted health and lowered bonuses.

4: Ditto #3.

5: Cabal bonus is now only +1, Archmage is only +2, Light is a perfect balance for Dark.  I think that's the gist of it.

Agree with Pandar.  It's good that you are asking questions, but the answers are pretty obvious.  Except for maybe the first two questions.  Also, IMO, directed questions are better because then its harder for lurkers to just ignore them.

That being said:
- vote Neruz for joining the Org/ExKirby wagon right after Jim Grovvester (always thought it was Groovestar, oops), RedWarrior, and Kashyyk were arguing about just that and for not really having much content yet either
- vote Pandarsenic for going after Org/ExKirby even as an experienced player without providing an explanation beyond 'well why shouldn't I?'

[Pandarsenic]

Bitch, unvote me or give me a good reason not to use them as test subjects. It's not like they'll help us any other way

[RandomNumberGenerator]

Meph, could you clarify what the healing rules are?

[Jim Groovester]

Bitch, unvote me or give me a good reason not to use them as test subjects. It's not like they'll help us any other way

That's an odd response. Test subjects for what?

Anyway, here's a reason to unvote them: they're not guilty of anything other than being bad players at this point.

I get you're fed up with them, but that's no reason to carry the grudge you have against them (which you make known just about everywhere in this subforum) into this game.

Halmie, you're guilty of joining the Org-ExKirby bandwagon.

Sorry I was asleep. Unvote JanusTwoFace.

Vote ExKirby ofcourse. He still wants to go in the ring. Just doesn't want to have all the assists against him.

We might as well make sure that ExKirby wanting to be in the ring is the case.

ExKirby: Do you still want to go into the ring, or was my attempt to get you to change this tradition you keep perpetuating useless?

Back to you, Halmie. Is there any particular reason why you think ExKirby not wanting the assists to be piled against him is a scummy thing to do?

[JanusTwoface]

Bitch, unvote me or give me a good reason not to use them as test subjects. It's not like they'll help us any other way

As a general rule, I wouldn't particularly mind you using them as test subjects, especially Org.  However, I think that your behavior is more scummy than theirs at the present point, thus the vote.

Also, I agree with Jim.  Test subjects for what exactly?  Cabal experimentation?

[Mephansteras]

Healing

All mages are healed completely before and after combat. The healing assist is only used to heal mages during combat.

[Pandarsenic]

Bitch, unvote me or give me a good reason not to use them as test subjects. It's not like they'll help us any other way

As a general rule, I wouldn't particularly mind you using them as test subjects, especially Org.  However, I think that your behavior is more scummy than theirs at the present point, thus the vote.

Also, I agree with Jim.  Test subjects for what exactly?  Cabal experimentation?

See how fast they die against people. If they die too fast they're probably scum.

How am I more scummy?

[PrinnyBaal]

First, I see you guys successfully missed the reason I posted those questions; Well, figures since it's been the standard...

If the cabal has the advantage, and while yes; it's true statistically, we can analyze the pattern and find general categories for people's hits/blocks etc, there's a problem; Even if that finds Cabal, doesn't it tend to find them slower? God forbid the Cabal uses that; and we end up getting the weakest Cabal roles first, and the strongest Cabal roles last. If we're slow about it, we'll never actually succeed. That's what my reading of the last two games has picked up.

So; wouldn't the best method of finding Cabal actually to be to let people to assist the one they believe is the townie; and try and refine our cabal hunting speed through a combination of that, as well as things like what people say, and the various other things.

Just... I dunno, maybe as an outsider that's my opinion that hasn't been influenced by the games, but really; we can't let the game go down to the narrow margin if we have a choice.


Anyway; as for my thoughts thus far; I can't really point at anyone specifically. I'm working on forming my own suspicions, but... not much to say. I suppose next I should start getting PMs going, and try and decide where to dedicate my attention...

[Halmie]

I didn't say it was scummy. Tests need to be done and if ExKirby wants to be part of it I'm cool with that. Anyway it may mean he doesn't have a power role and is cabal or

And I'm pretty sure I was the first one to vote for anyone. If ExKirby doesn't want to be in the ring I will retract my vote.

I'm tired and it seems like whoever I vote for is a scumtell. Org has a history of being unhelpful. If we can use him for tests maybe he can help in another way.

[PrinnyBaal]

I'm just going to say; If you get doubles, or triples of the same message from me, or weird glitches or anything; It's because for some reason, this forum keeps hanging whenever I try to send messages, and I've been having enough problems trying to figure out how to get it to just politely go through and send them.

Sorry for any problems caused thereby.

[Halmie]

Yeah it's the same for me. Keeps timing out on me.

[Jim Groovester]

See how fast they die against people. If they die too fast they're probably scum.

How am I more scummy?

If who dies too fast who's scum?

As for your scumminess, Pandarsenic, it might have to do with how you don't care whether Org or ExKirby are Tower. And it might have something to do with you starting, or at the very least, encouraging a bandwagon on the two just because you didn't like them.

So; wouldn't the best method of finding Cabal actually to be to let people to assist the one they believe is the townie; and try and refine our cabal hunting speed through a combination of that, as well as things like what people say, and the various other things.

No. Letting people assist how they please muddies up the results of the duel even more than the random nature of its combat does.

Say a Tower and a Cabal are duking it out. The Cabal will invent some reason to help their partner, while everybody else splits their assists evenly between the two duelists. The Cabal will win. Can you attribute the win to his boosted stats? No, of course not, because he had all those assists. His victory means nothing in terms of Towerness or Cabalness.

Let's say the same situation occurs, but everybody agrees to not assist. The Cabal wins, and he used the wrong element. Can you attribute that to his boosted stats? Not necessarily, but it's a better indicator that he might be Cabal than if everybody assisted freely.

It's therefore more informative to arrange assists as a group.

You see what I'm getting at? Last round, we arranged our assists like that, and we did a pretty decent job finding scum, even though Org still won. It's not like that was the only reason for our success in finding scum, though, but it may have helped.

I didn't say it was scummy. Tests need to be done and if ExKirby wants to be part of it I'm cool with that. Anyway it may mean he doesn't have a power role and is cabal or

And I'm pretty sure I was the first one to vote for anyone. If ExKirby doesn't want to be in the ring I will retract my vote.

I'm tired and it seems like whoever I vote for is a scumtell. Org has a history of being unhelpful. If we can use him for tests maybe he can help in another way.

You were the first to vote for Org, but you were the latest person to vote for ExKirby. So, a half bandwagon.

I don't really care that you were the first to vote, or that you were the first to vote for Org. It's the reasons that are important to me. I find it suspicious, however, that you would tout that you were first to vote. Were you trying to avoid being accused of being on a bandwagon by pointing out that you were first? Was it a Cabal scheme you cooked up?

I understand your opinion of Org, and everybody else's for that matter, but has he really done anything in this game that makes you think he's Cabal? If not, I think you should seriously reexamine your reasons for voting for him.