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[forsaken1111]

Absolutely do.

Alright then, I want you to have an exact coded solution to the milking problem in five minutes. I'll give you 15 to allow for reading time.  If you can't do it, then you have to stop talking about how quick and easy it is.  If you can do it, we admit we're wrong and praise you for being a genius.

I've already tried this approach. He ignores anything he can't counter.

[Jay]

Epic catch-22 on that logic, LegoLord.
+1

[brenoink]

How can you make a time estimate when you don't know how his code works?

Because the implemenation of milking should be similar no matter what.

Tell me, which do you think takes longer- making a text-based battleship game that runs in unix, or making, say, the microsoft office suite (running in windows)?

You can make an estimate here without knowing any details about either operating system.

[brenoink]

How can you make a time estimate when you don't know how his code works?  Toady knows it best, and he put these things at about a day's worth of work at minimum, normally.

Then I'd have to say he doesn't do very much work in a day, does he?

[Jay]

How can you make a time estimate when you don't know how his code works?

Because the implemenation of milking should be similar no matter what.

Tell me, which do you think takes longer- making a text-based battleship game that runs in unix, or making, say, the microsoft office suite (running in windows)?

You can make an estimate here without knowing any details about either operating system.

Except when both things are Toady's code, that's negligent.

What takes longer, changing A or changing B?  YOU DON'T KNOW.

[forsaken1111]

How can you make a time estimate when you don't know how his code works?

Because the implemenation of milking should be similar no matter what.

Tell me, which do you think takes longer- making a text-based battleship game that runs in unix, or making, say, the microsoft office suite (running in windows)?

You can make an estimate here without knowing any details about either operating system.

So you're saying this game is more akin to a simple text-based battleship game? Right, you lost any remaining credibility you had there.

[brenoink]

How can you make a time estimate when you don't know how his code works?

Because the implemenation of milking should be similar no matter what.

Tell me, which do you think takes longer- making a text-based battleship game that runs in unix, or making, say, the microsoft office suite (running in windows)?

You can make an estimate here without knowing any details about either operating system.

Except when both things are Toady's code, that's negligent.

What takes longer, changing A or changing B?  YOU DON'T KNOW.

Except A and B are not interchangable

A is very simple and very similar to other existing features

B is not

[brenoink]

How can you make a time estimate when you don't know how his code works?

Because the implemenation of milking should be similar no matter what.

Tell me, which do you think takes longer- making a text-based battleship game that runs in unix, or making, say, the microsoft office suite (running in windows)?

You can make an estimate here without knowing any details about either operating system.

So you're saying this game is more akin to a simple text-based battleship game? Right, you lost any remaining credibility you had there.

Absolutely not. It was an off-the-cuff contrast to a larger application. And you've missed the target of my analogy completely- the battleship/microsoft office are features of DF, not DF and some other application.

[Jay]

A is very simple and very similar to other existing features

B is not

So explain the implied logic to me.
Just HOW do you know that?

[brenoink]

A is very simple and very similar to other existing features

B is not

So explain the implied logic to me.
Just HOW do you know that?

Its pretty self apparent, especially if you've done any programming at all in the past.

[forsaken1111]

How can you make a time estimate when you don't know how his code works?

Because the implemenation of milking should be similar no matter what.

Tell me, which do you think takes longer- making a text-based battleship game that runs in unix, or making, say, the microsoft office suite (running in windows)?

You can make an estimate here without knowing any details about either operating system.

Except when both things are Toady's code, that's negligent.

What takes longer, changing A or changing B?  YOU DON'T KNOW.

Except A and B are not interchangable

A is very simple and very similar to other existing features

B is not

That's the point, you have no idea what you're talking about. You don't know the problems which may crop up if he just changed something to suddenly allow animals in reactions. I might suddenly get cow bones which are milkable, or be able to make living dog armor. Admittedly, those would be awesome but its still a glitch. You don't know how things interact in a game as complex as this, and for you to sit here and belittle his work has to be insulting to him.

I'll say it again, if it was such a quick change to make it work and work correctly, HE WOULD HAVE DONE IT. He isn't some elitist jerk who delights in watching you milk only maggots.

[Jay]

Its pretty self apparent, especially if you've done any programming at all in the past.

So Toady's method of coding, of which you've seen none, is self-apparent?

How can something you have no idea about be apparent to you?

[tourettedog]

This has gotten off track.

Proposition submitted for debate:
If you actually are in any way angered by the question "why should we continue to donate when there haven't been any releases for a year and core gameplay and interface issues haven't been addressed?", then perhaps it's time to pause, go out and get some fresh air, and think a bit about your life.

[Sysice]

I think both sides of this debate have some good points. There certainly is a much better way brenoink could go about this, but the people jumping on him really should calm down a little bit. Brenoink, could you stop posting things with no content just saying how wrong we are and how you absolutely know the right answer? Everyone else, could you actually kinda follow the same advice?

Now, on topic: Toady is trying to get the features out before he refines them. Some of them are going to be completely replaced, so he's not going to fix all the bugs with them just to delete them later. This is a very early level game, and it's pretty much the embodiement of roughness. Be glad we even have a milking feature, a cave-in feature, a brewing and cooking system, and whatever else you think could be improved. It all will be, over time. I agree with you that cows should be milked, but I don't agree with you that Toady should stop everything and fix all these things. Even though he can fix 200 small things in the time it takes to implement 5 things, he only has 500 big things to implement next to probably hundreds of thousands of small things to fix.

EDIT: those numbers are just examples.

[SirPenguin]

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