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[assimilateur]

What about saying we would need to ask Toady for the answer implied that I don't think he knows it?

For fuck's sake, man, that's exactly what I meant. He would know, unless it was a bug. The above post was my, perhaps not very direct, way of asking you why you'd think this wasn't working as designed.

Why do I even need to type this!?

Kettle, meet pot.

[The Architect]

Easiest cop-out of them all 

Really, your whole question is a chronic case of non sequitur. I think an explanation is in order, or I'm just going to have to chock this up to being way over my head or completely illogical.

[Garrie]

We'd have to ask Toady himself or do an extensive study.

You don't think he would know what the mechanics were? I mean, assuming this whole alcoholism-like phenomenon isn't a bug and is instead working as designed.

There are a lot of unforseen shit happen in all sorts of simulators that aren't put there intentionally by design, but the simulator links things where there was no intention to link them.

So he might not immediately KNOW the link but with access to source code would be able to identify if one actually (intended or otherwise) comes up.

[Garrie]

What fucking use is a legendary bowyer?
Who has made a blowpipe?? worth a piss-poor 2400 dwarfbux!

There must be a "worst artifacts" thread somewhere....

[assimilateur]

Easiest cop-out of them all 

It should have been obvious what I meant the first time, so what the hell are you talking about now? Read the following again:

assuming this whole alcoholism-like phenomenon isn't a bug and is instead working as designed.

I think an explanation is in order

Your observation is that dwarves "not caring about anything anymore" will start drinking way more than before, right?

Asking Toady to do a study on this doesn't make much sense to me, unless you assume beforehand that it is a bug, for which the reasons are unclear. What we'd need to know is whether this trait was intended to work as you've described. If it isn't, then it's working not as intended, and hence is a bug.

Of course I don't believe in wasting the dev's time on this sort of Mickey Mouse bullshit, so this discussion is academic, but I just want to make sure we understand each other.

EDIT: To state my question explicitly: why do you think we are dealing with a bug here? I was perhaps overly optimistic in my assumption that this question was clearly enough implied in my earlier post.

There are a lot of unforseen shit happen in all sorts of simulators that aren't put there intentionally by design, but the simulator links things where there was no intention to link them.

That would make it a bug, would it not?

What fucking use is a legendary bowyer?

I usually make my crossbows out of bone, but once you have a legendary weapon smith, it's probably gonna be best to order some copper ones. Melee damage might not be that big a deal, but having MW weapons ups their chance to hit. Accordingly, a legendary bowyer isn't useless per se, but made obsolete by a legendary weapon smith.

There must be a "worst artifacts" thread somewhere....

There is, but I wouldn't bother looking for it, because it's painfully repetitive. I mean, how many original posts can there be in a thread that's used for complaining about artifact jewelry or blow pipes?

Probably the most interesting - as in, deserving reply - posts are when people are complaining about artifact furniture, supposedly not realizing that at least that has its use. Supposedly, for some people the only artifact that's not lame is a weapon or piece of armor.

[Garrie]

assuming this whole alcoholism-like phenomenon isn't a bug and is instead working as designed.

There are a lot of unforseen shit happen in all sorts of simulators that aren't put there intentionally by design, but the simulator links things where there was no intention to link them.

That would make it a bug, would it not?

"Undocumented feature"?
It's only a bug if it breaks something! This is a game which is helped by "interesting behaviour" isn't it? PS I was actually thinking of some real-world sims where, in fact, the "designed behaviour" had bought to light previously unconsidered interactions. But right now I can't think of any, and the one I did think of was a bug (implementation of kangaroos in a millitary simulator). But funny.

What fucking use is a legendary bowyer?

I usually make my crossbows out of bone, but once you have a legendary weapon smith, it's probably gonna be best to order some copper ones. Melee damage might not be that big a deal, but having MW weapons ups their chance to hit. Accordingly, a legendary bowyer isn't useless per se, but made obsolete by a legendary weapon smith.

D'oh! that's right in missile combat a wooden or bone crossbow is just fine. So yeah a legendary bowyer isn't totally without purpose.

There must be a "worst artifacts" thread somewhere....

There is, but I wouldn't bother looking for it, because it's painfully repetitive. I mean, how many original posts can there be in a thread that's used for complaining about artifact jewelry or blow pipes?

True enough. But a non-wieldable (in fort mode) blowgun worth only 2400 db's is pretty useless.

Probably the most interesting - as in, deserving reply - posts are when people are complaining about artifact furniture, supposedly not realizing that at least that has its use. Supposedly, for some people the only artifact that's not lame is a weapon or piece of armor.

Hey I actually LIKE my artifact floodgates & querns. I had one that buffed my baronesses room out quite nicely. She still got the shits about the artifact office desk in my managers office/bedroom room though!

[assimilateur]

Perhaps my definition of bug is pretty broad, as it doesn't take into account whether or not such a feature or functionality is desirable.

Regarding artifacts, furniture is good, even if it's only worth a couple thousand. Not only does it up the value of whichever room it is used in, as you've already said, it's also something your dwarves will admire. That isn't possible with unusable crafts or weapons, or even with clothes.

[vorpal+5]

How much time is needed for a puppy to be an adult dog? I have puppies milling around since one year and none is still ready for serious stuff!

Is it better to fight with some significant wrestling skill (like level 8+) or to have a poor weapon (wooden swords, don't ask, I'm poor) with level 1 skill? More generally, until I get decent weapons, should I let my dwarves fight with wrestling techniques, or should I equip them with whatever crap I can get my hands on (rusty daggers found on goblins corpses, whatever )?

Why oh why there is not the option to change the squad option (on rest/on duty) from the view squad menu? Really, this game has the {####} interface I ever saw, and I saw many since my youth!

[assimilateur]

How much time is needed for a puppy to be an adult dog? I have puppies milling around since one year and none is still ready for serious stuff!

Is it better to fight with some significant wrestling skill (like level 8+) or to have a poor weapon (wooden swords, don't ask, I'm poor) with level 1 skill? More generally, until I get decent weapons, should I let my dwarves fight with wrestling techniques, or should I equip them with whatever crap I can get my hands on (rusty daggers found on goblins corpses, whatever )?

Why oh why there is not the option to change the squad option (on rest/on duty) from the view squad menu? Really, this game has the {####} interface I ever saw, and I saw many since my youth!

Puppies become adult dogs after one year. You can check this in the creature raws, looking for the entry [CHILD:n], where n stands for the age of maturity.

The wrestling skill is useful for any and all fighters, hence it is best to make them start fighting unarmed. I generally only switch to weapons once they've become legendary. Also, you won't be able to equip daggers in the unmodded game.

[Garrie]

More generally, until I get decent weapons, should I let my dwarves fight with wrestling techniques, or should I equip them with whatever crap I can get my hands on (rusty daggers found on goblins corpses, whatever )?

horrendous hack:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Mark the merchants guards weapons and armour for dumping. Make sure you have a dump zone. That will give at least your initial millitia some decent weaponry.

Also you should have woodcutters set to fight unarmoured with axes, in a squad, as a rapid response group. They rapidly become tough, agile, strong from chopping trees.... chopping gobbos isn't all that difficult if you've been chopping oaks!

It is worth telling your marksdwarves to wrestle up to legendary status because it is quicker and easier way to get their agility / strength / toughness up than shooting bone/wood at targets. You should also if you can manage it get them to spar with warhammers, because that's what their crossbow is at close range. I'd go from generic (wrestler) to specialist (marksdwarf) to cross-trained (hammerers).

[assimilateur]

It is worth telling your marksdwarves to wrestle up to legendary status because it is quicker and easier way to get their agility / strength / toughness up than shooting bone/wood at targets.

That really shouldn't be your reason for training them in wrestling. If you're just looking for attributes, pumping iron or operating catapults is probably faster, not to mention safer.

Wrestling, however, is indeed useful in itself, as it also makes it easier to dodge attacks. Other than that, I do not know how the mechanics of grappling defensively work, but the chance of breaking a joint lock or something might also be skill-based, as opposed to merely attribute-based.

[vorpal+5]

ok, so wrestling is the way to go

do marksmen get a penalty from firing at point blank (adjacent to the enemy)?

unrelated: why would I want to make road on the map? Because it is fancy and a show of Dwarven* awesomeness?

*for the native English speakers, is it dwarven or dwarvish that I should use (ok, I could use dorfs it seems

[Spong]

If I set up an automated slaughterhouse so that animals fall onto a refuse dump will they be butchered regardless of whether they are tame or wild?

[Deon]

If they are butcherable, they will be butchered.

[assimilateur]

do marksmen get a penalty from firing at point blank (adjacent to the enemy)?

I don't know whether they get a penalty per se, but the problem is that being adjacent to the enemy is dangerous in itself. Accordingly, it should probably avoided unless your champions are fairly badass and well equipped.

*for the native English speakers, is it dwarven or dwarvish that I should use (ok, I could use dorfs it seems

As a non-native speaker of English, I should take this exclusion as an insult.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Just kidding, of course. As to your question, assuming you still want my input, both dwarven and dwarfish (mind the spelling) seem to be correct, but I think dwarven seems to be more commonly used when referring to the mythical creatures.