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[Sabre_Justice]

I couldn't find a recent thread on the topic, so I'll share my recent ideas;

Now, last I remember I think we can build musical instruments but they're just trade goods like the rest, but I don't think it would be too hard (I could very well be wrong) to implement a system where musically inclined dwarves perform in public places (and hopefully practice in private) with the instrument of their choice, which gives a happy thought to any dwarves that are listening. If a dwarf particularly likes the instrument or the song, they might even give the performer a coin or two, so we don't have starving artists but buskers (and maybe nobles could pay them for private performances, or to follow them around mariachi-style).

Another music related idea I had- I want to forge and ring a great big bell. Probably using metal (brass in particular), we could order a large bell to be forged, and to use it requires it to be constructed like a building. Ringing the bell could work like a regular performance, maybe not using the skill of the dwarf but mostly the quality of the construction, and the bell could maybe also be set up to ring when a lever is pulled, maybe to alert the dwarves when things are happening (as opposed to automatically knowing what's going on as they do now I guess), or just so you can set up Norte Dorf. Note that a gong could probably serve the same function as a bell. The bell/gong may be rung whenever a noble arrives (or says so), a child is born, etc.

Apart from that, what instruments might be possible to build in DF's setting, and where would they be crafted? I can imagine drums and horns would be the easiest to make with wood or bone (and metal drums aren't out of the question), while string instruments might require wood, and trumpets and the like needing metal.

[Craftling]

I couldn't find a recent thread on the topic, so I'll share my recent ideas;

Thats what necroing is for.

[Warlord255]

Music would need a graphical representation first. I nominate floating music notes.

[Killas[SiN]]

Yeah, there are a few unused spaces in the tilesets IIRC.

I support this idea, it adds a whole level of depth to the game.

In addition, there could be music styles which would effect preferences.
As in, a dwarf could prefer playing Jazz and a noble might like Jazz and so the noble would hire the musician. There could be a set number of music styles, e.g Jazz, Funk, Dorf Pop, Classical, etc.
A simple (The simplest) way to take into account the effect of the music on a dwarf would probably be:

Skill of Musican + Condition of Instrument - Health Issues With the Musician x2 (Play a trumpet with a punctured lung? Really?) + Preference of Music = Effect of Music

Higher number the better...

My half baked ideas...

[Impaler[WrG]]

I nominate floating music notes.

How amazingly original!!  How did you ever come up with that??

Ok seriously a visual representation of sound is a good idea and something the game could use, the game currently on has bad 'noize' and people have complained that it can't be seen in any way.  Perhaps bad sounds will appear as a red demonic clawed hands scraping on a chalk board.  What ever the sound icons are the tricky part is to show the spacial nature of sounds.  Would the icons originate on the source and sputter outward for some distance fountain like, or perhaps flash on and off on the person/s hearing the sound (and not otherwise in a tree falls in the woods kind of way).  It's an interesting UI problem how best to visually convey auditory information in real time.

[Squirrelloid]

making rock instruments should definitely be as awesome as it sounds, and not ho-hum like it currently is =)

More relevantly:
Since Toady is aiming for ~14th century and earlier, the following would seem to represent the styles reasonable in DF:

Troubadour/Jongler - poetry, often accompanied by music, on one of three themes: war, honor, and love.  There's particular metrical requirements.  Originated in Provence 12th c, and spread through (modern) France and to England and Italy (and probably Germany).  A Troubadour composes and performs, while a Jongler only performs.  A troubadour also tended to be of nobility.  (Something for those consorts to do?)

Epic Poetry - Multiple forms of epic poetry as a performance event existed during the relevant historical periods, most notably germanic and gaelic forms.  The germanic variant appears to have been entirely in verse, and has particular assonance/consonance requirements with somewhat looser meter.  The gaelic had set metrical parts interspersed amongst a spoken story.  Both were often accompanied by (minimalist) music.

Period Instruments:
Harp, fiddle, rebec, psaltery, dulcimer, hurdy-gurdy, viol, flute, trumpet, pipe, shawn, recorder, bagpipe, crumhorn, gemshorn, 'lizard', drum, cymbal, triangle, tamborine.

Obviously, only some of these are suitable for solo performance.l  I might recommend harp, fiddle, viol, recorder, and bagpipe as a useful set of instruments.

Group performance could involve quite a few people, and would likely be disruptive to DF, so is probably a bad idea...

And of course, comedic performance and similar occupied the same niche as musical performance in the time period:

Jester - jokes, humorous situational comedy, etc...

Juggler - same as modern, probably smaller repetoire on average, but would have also included 'magic' tricks and the like.

Mummer - masked or costumed merrymaker or dancer

Strolling Player - a wandering actor.  Would typically perform scenes from famous plays, generally during the off season when work doing a full play was scarce. 

So, our performance dwarf list might look like:
Troubadour
Jongler
Bard (epic poetry)
Harpist
Fiddler
Violist
Recorder player
Bagpiper
Jester
Juggler
Mummer
Player

Dwarves could like any particular type, although disliking a particular type would be a luxury that would be uncommon in the time period.  (That is, even your least favorite would still be preferable to no performance).

Some of these should be wandering professions.  The artist might arrive at your fortress, perform for a season or two, and then wander off.  Of course, your nobles might be willing to spend fortress wealth to retain them for longer if they really liked them (need a better concept of 'spendable fortress wealth' probably), or even sponsoring them long-term. 

A troubadour in your fortress should increase the number of jonglers who visit over time, as they come to learn whatever new material he is creating.

Artists should have a 'fame' rating, especially troubadours, jonglers, bards, and players, but likely also musicians, and the remainder to a lesser degree.

[LumenPlacidum]

Music would need a graphical representation first. I nominate floating music notes.

I think that, just like we have something for strange moods, which is flashing periodically with an exclamation mark, we should have a similar thing for performing, but flashing a musical note (which are already in the game).  It would be awesome to be able to designate meeting halls as performance spaces, and they could act like parties in that people come to attend them and they act as social events, but could also inherently give good thoughts if the players are good.

[Sabre_Justice]

It would be beyond awesome if dwarves could have visible dance moves.

Of those instruments you listed, I have to wonder- which ones would be made out of what materials?

I imagine stone would probably only be good for the existing ones, piccolos and other wind instruments. Most string instruments, drums and also woodwinds could be made out of wood, I imagine. While trumpets, cymbals, triangles and similar would have to be forged out of metal. Things like bagpipes would need leather or cloth, too.

[Bricks]

Since Toady is aiming for ~14th century and earlier, the following would seem to represent the styles reasonable in DF:

That statement is more about the level of technology, not the culture.  Not that dwarves should have speed metal (although I'd be willing to accept it).  I'd don't think it really adds anything to have strictly separate jobs for each type of music/instrument, as the benefits of a trumpeter over a harpist aren't really clear (apart from dwarf preferences - more on that in a minute).  Bards are arguably special cases.  It might be excessive, but the new squad controls could be adapted to create "troops" of musicians.  (In fact, the squad controls could be utilized in just about any industry, but that's another story.)

Spheres could be used to direct the cultural styles of music without giving each style an explicit (or at least, not hardcoded) name.  "The dwarf flutist is playing in the style of Stoneshaken, music that represents the steadiness of mountains and the crashing of storms."  Songs would be developed much like engraving - based on cheese or historical events.

[Squirrelloid]

You're assuming style is independent of technology.  And I don't just mean the technology necessary to make the instruments.  Jazz is a product of its time (technologically, socially, etc...), as is Rock, Big Band, various styles of Opera, etc...  Even a cursory examination of music history would reveal this.

[Bricks]

You're assuming style is independent of technology.  And I don't just mean the technology necessary to make the instruments.  Jazz is a product of its time (technologically, socially, etc...), as is Rock, Big Band, various styles of Opera, etc...  Even a cursory examination of music history would reveal this.

Really?  I believed that all forms of music were equally likely at any point in time, regardless of the available instruments or technology to develop them.  Dur, dur, dur.

My point is that I don't want to see music/culture ripped straight from history.  For the in-game humans, sure, but why not be more abstract?  I salute your exhaustive treatment of fourteenth-century European music, but I'd like to see more variety.  Your notion of a Troubadour (or Jongler, a very funny word) is a good starting point, something perhaps that could be implemented in the short run as a hardcoded feature, but it seems like that could be split up into a number of general styles that could then be mashed up in the raws or world generation, such as "poems/lyrics," "fixed themes," "original composition (vs recital of traditional songs)," "theatrical performance," "dancing," and "required caste."  I don't know that meter is important unless you either expect Toady to implement a random poem generator (something which I think he has actually considered) or you know some way to abstract it.

[Funk]

may be dwarfs that own Musical Instruments can play them at partys,
when thay have no job.
and thay may give a happy Thought (enjoyed hearing good music) or a bad Thought (was annoyed by bad music)

dwarfs get prefs for X Instrument and can have:
 (enjoyed hearing a well played X)
(was annoyed by the sound of a butched X)
dwarf care more about there pref Instruments than others.

[Grendus]

You're assuming style is independent of technology.  And I don't just mean the technology necessary to make the instruments.  Jazz is a product of its time (technologically, socially, etc...), as is Rock, Big Band, various styles of Opera, etc...  Even a cursory examination of music history would reveal this.

I think you're mistaking cause and effect. Music is a product (as well as a part) of culture, which is, in part, a product of technology. Two distinct cultures at roughly the same technological level with no contact will produce different types of music. A lot more goes into music than technology.

I like the idea of a dwarf flashing with a music note to denote playing music. I think this should go into the larger socialization arc though. Dwarves may gather around a skilled dwarf playing music, may have musical preferences, and may admire other dwarf musicians. Dwarves with low musical talent may decide to practice in their rooms if they have them, while others may perform bad music and may cause unhappy thoughts.

I also really like the idea of musical "styles" being randomly generated based on spheres. It would also be interesting to see the musical styles develop over time. For example, if a musicians style is based on the sphere and their deity, it could start as a style based on the sphere of the mountainhome and slowly change based on the dwarf's religious beliefs, preferences, and the sphere the fortress is in. In order to figure out whether a dwarf "likes" the music, the dwarf would judge the music based on the skill of the performer and whether the music represents something he likes (mountains, oxen, rough gemstones, etc) or dislikes.

It would be kind of interesting to see "Urist McFlutist is performing *random dwarvish song name*. It celebrates mountains, rough onyx, mules for their stubbornness, and expresses a hatred of rhino lizards and flies."

[Squirrelloid]

You're assuming style is independent of technology.  And I don't just mean the technology necessary to make the instruments.  Jazz is a product of its time (technologically, socially, etc...), as is Rock, Big Band, various styles of Opera, etc...  Even a cursory examination of music history would reveal this.

I think you're mistaking cause and effect. Music is a product (as well as a part) of culture, which is, in part, a product of technology. Two distinct cultures at roughly the same technological level with no contact will produce different types of music. A lot more goes into music than technology.

I don't believe i ever said music is only a product of technology.  In fact, I even listed 'social' contributors.  (ie, culture).

Ie, i'm claiming music = f(technology).  That doesn't mean it isn't also a function of other things.

That said, there's a lot of indicators in DF that european norms are being assumed for dwarves.  And some genres (epic poetry, for example) seemed rather appropriate.

I mean, the other issue is of course the audience.  A selection of medieval chinese instruments might be totally incomprehensible to most players of the game.  (You'll note I recommended mostly instruments that are at least somewhat familiar to a modern audience - the viol being the weirdist but close enough linguistically to related instruments to not be too confusing).

[darkrider2]

I like! I've always wanted to see the instruments put to good use other then trading for stuff and getting rid of rocks.

I see a couple problems... representation of noise, for example, would fill up and clutter the display much like miasma or steam. Maybe if the dwarf/object making noise would blink between its regular icon and a music note. And even give the dwarfs the ability to make noise complaints.

Second... where the music is performed and practiced. I would suggest a new furniture object (music stand?) that you can q > r into a room. If its assigned to a dwarf he/she will practice there... one left unowned will be used as a music hall, where dwarfs will gather to socialize and listen to the music.