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[Leafsnail]

I can't see any actual way for the Good or the Ugly to win.  All the other factions need them to lose and as far as I can tell they don't have enough power to fight back.

[Max White]

They could be exceptionally good at the game but... Honestly I wouldn't like their chances.

[Persus13]

I can't see any actual way for the Good or the Ugly to win.  All the other factions need them to lose and as far as I can tell they don't have enough power to fight back.

Well that is a problem given that they win in the movie. Any suggestions to make them more powerful? Like having it so that the Union and Confederates don't need to kill the Ugly to win.

[Nerjin]

Here's a suggestion: BASE it on the movie but don't just try to remake the movie. If what you want to do is recreate the movie step for step you're up for a bunch of sadness. Though it seems to me that it could be interesting if you were to make it along the lines of two seperate games going on that interfere with the other.

Perhaps the Union and Confederates don't care at all about the third parties?

[Persus13]

Here's a suggestion: BASE it on the movie but don't just try to remake the movie. If what you want to do is recreate the movie step for step you're up for a bunch of sadness.

Yeah, definitely.

Though it seems to me that it could be interesting if you were to make it along the lines of two seperate games going on that interfere with the other.

Perhaps the Union and Confederates don't care at all about the third parties?

This is pretty much exactly what I'd like the game to be like. Yeah I should change it up slightly.

[makeinu]

Basing a game on existing material is fraught with hazards if your players are even remotely familiar with that material.

Or have access to the internet.



I once played a game where the mod based everything off of the Foundation novels by Isaac Asimov, and used actual names from the novels for the roles. The Mule didn't come out so good, as expected. And it was dead simple to identify the scum (Empire) as role names came out, because the town took the tack that if you weren't sharing your name, you were Empire, period. One scum player had the sense to dig into the source material and invent a role.

Lesson learned: don't do that. Otherwise, it was a great theme setup.

[Persus13]

Yeah, definitely. But if they're not a third party, they're going to be Confederate Soldier or something.

[Leafsnail]

Actually it's fine to do that as long as you give the mafia members a list of pro-town characters that aren't in the game.

[notquitethere]

Newest CYOM version is up. In this one, non-kill powers are cheaper, and there's more ways to gain points and swap powers out. I really want to see a Prolific Santa scum-team in action now.

Spoiler: CYOM v.1.2 (click to show/hide)

CHOOSE-YOUR-OWN-MAFIA


CYOM has all the normal features of a mafia game like nights and days and votes blah blah, I'll steal from the OP of someone else's game.

It has the additional feature of points which can be spent on powers at the beginning of each night.

The game starts at N0, and each player is alloted an alignment (either town or scum) and has five points to spend on powers. The mafia don't get a mafiakill by default, but they do have a chat in which they can discuss (among other things) how they'll build their powers. Scum collectively can't kill or convert more than one target in a phase.

At the end of each day, before taking night actions, a player gets 1 point for surviving the day, and they have the choice to buy off any flaws they have, cash in an old power for half its original cost rounded down and buy new powers.

The list of powers are here:
Secondary Wincons (N0 only. Can only pick one of these and the exact secondary wincon is chosen randomly)
---
0 points - Standard Wincon (random allocation of scum or town)
1 point (standard wincon + optional difficult wincon - like Survivor, Watcher)
2 point (standard wincon + optional nonstandard wincon - like Lyncher, Brother)
3 points (standard wincon + optional easy wincon - like Jester, Martyr)
---
Powers (unless stated otherwise, no power can be self-targeting)
1 - Scan (spot how many points a player has)
1 - Unreliable alignment cop
2 - Count (find out the number of powers and autos a player has)
2 - Half kill (if a player revieves two half-kills in a night they die)
2 - point share (give any number of exp to a target)
2 - randomise
2 - sap (steal all a player's unspent points)
2 - Protect
2 - Gift (give one of your powers to a target player)
3 - Cleanse (All the target's flaws are removed)
3 - Power Swap (swap a random power you have, including Power Swap, with a random power your target has)
3 - track
3 - redirect
3 - block
3 - bus
3 - Recycle (target player has all their powers and autos cashed for full-point cost. This interrupts all other actions the target might take in a night and can be self-targeted.)
4 - Santa (target player gains a random power)
4 - changeling (target player gains all your powers/flaws/autos and you get the powers/flaws/autos of your target)
5 - ability cop
5 - alignment cop
6 - Double-Voter (day action)
6 - Vote stealer (day action)
6 - Hide (spend one point to become incapable of taking or receiving night actions for the night.)
6 - infallible alignment cop (can see through Miller and Innocent)
6 - Day cop
6 - night kill
7 - night convert to your alignment (scum only)
7 - day kill
8 - day convert to your alignment (scum only)

Autos
1 - innocent (show up as town under inspect)
1 - silent (you can't be tracked)
2 - immovable- you cannot be redirected or bussed
2 - unstoppable (can't be blocked or protected against. Immunities still apply)
2 - lucky: unreliable powers are 3/4 reliable and your actions go above non-lucky people when you would normally roll to see who goes first).
2 - Bloodthirsty: get an extra point every time a day ends with your vote on the player that gets lynched.
2 - Thrill-seeker: get an extra point every time a day ends with the number of votes on you equal to or one point less than the player with the most votes)
2 - Quick-Learner (all point gains count for double)
3 - Flexible (gets full point cost back for cashed in powers)
4 - Prolific (can use two actions in a night, can be the same power)
5 - Resurrection (After dying for the first time, you awake alive the next day (missing all night actions and gaining of points while you are dead)
5 - Immune to night kills
5 - Explosive (you kill anyone targeting a kill at you as well as dying)

Flaws - A player can get more points on N0 only by taking flaws. These can be bought off later in the game for twice their initial cost.
-1 - Unlucky (unreliable powers work 25% of the time, non-unlucky players take precedence in same-level action ordering. Must have at least one power in order to take this flaw.)
-1 - miller. shows up as scum under inspect (town only)
-1 - hardcore (all protects on you fail- cannot be taken alongside night-kill immune)
-1 - dense (does not gain points in game)
-1 - Mercenary (all your powers cost one point to play. Must have at least one applicable power in order to take this flaw)
-2 - unable to vote
-2 - unreliable (your powers and autos have a 50% chance of failure. Must have at least one power or auto in order to take this flaw)
-2 - magnetic (your powers have a 50% chance of targeting yourself- must have at least one power to take this)

Leafsnail

The main issue is not interest but balance.  The town can easily shoot for a breaking strategy, and the scum's only response is to become a super-cult that wins on like the second day.  Perhaps it would actually be best for town to all take daykills and just end the game on day one before scum have a chance to convert everyone (since scum can only kill once you could confirm townies by firing).

You'd probably need to tone the powers down in order to get rid of town breaking strategies.

Maybe, it's difficult to say ahead of time how well town will manage to co-ordinate strategies. In the newest version, I've costed up the price of cults and made all the non-killing powers cheaper to tempt players to buy several lower-powered abilities for flexibility rather than just one kill.

Toaster

The problem with Dense is the player needs to live to see N3 before it becomes a payoff in not taking it.  The question becomes how much do you want to encourage min/maxing?  If not much, then cap flaws at one.  (BTW Hardcore is probably the best choice if you're not taking a Dense strategy.)  Dense, therefore, becomes weaker as the game gets larger.

Also, Mercenary is just terrible.  Its benefit is lost as soon as you use a power once. 

I've made dense give -1 instead. I think min-maxing is okay so long as the flaws all genuinely give the player a real disadvantage. When someone rocks up with a 10 point character spend they're going to be powerful to begin with but disadvantaged in the late game by all the players who are able to buy things much later on. Mercenary is okay as some players might want to take it just for that extra bit of starting juice. The flaws should be genuinely impactful.

[webadict]

Here's a way everyone wins:

Mafia all choose secondary wincons. You could even have the mafia kill each other to win. And if one of them gets jester, then it'll be a fairly easy game.

[notquitethere]

Here's a way everyone wins:

Mafia all choose secondary wincons. You could even have the mafia kill each other to win. And if one of them gets jester, then it'll be a fairly easy game.

Hmm, that's obviously not desirable. The purchasable secondary wincons are meant to give a bit of character flexibility, but it's all premised on the assumption that players will want to play an interesting and fun game more than they want to play something that allows them to have a quick win but a boring game. The removal of jester/martyr secondary wincons is probably a good move (or at least, they should come with a qualification: like you only win if you're the first to be night killed or the second to be lynched etc.), and scum probably shouldn't be allowed to pick secondary wincons.

[webadict]

Here's a way everyone wins:

Mafia all choose secondary wincons. You could even have the mafia kill each other to win. And if one of them gets jester, then it'll be a fairly easy game.

Hmm, that's obviously not desirable. The purchasable secondary wincons are meant to give a bit of character flexibility, but it's all premised on the assumption that players will want to play an interesting and fun game more than they want to play something that allows them to have a quick win but a boring game. The removal of jester/martyr secondary wincons is probably a good move (or at least, they should come with a qualification: like you only win if you're the first to be night killed or the second to be lynched etc.), and scum probably shouldn't be allowed to pick secondary wincons.

I think zombie urist was right. The secondary wincons aren't very good. If they're going to buy a wincon, it better be a full wincon and not a combination of a few.

[notquitethere]

Give me a reason why you don't think they're very good. My thinking was that having two possible wincons leaves things tactically open in the game (you might shoot for your secondary wincon, fail and try to recover as town) while most 3rd party roles on their own leave the player with a low likelihood of success (maybe that's just been my experience).

[webadict]

This advice is going to come from my experiences as a mod: Players play to win. They want to have fun in the process, but the overall desire is to win, and they might even forsake fun to do it. Plus, most people desire to have everyone win, since that's just more fun.

So, every possible game-breaking situation should be observed, pondered, and either destroyed or balanced. I'm pointing these out because if a player finds them, they'll use it.

So, if all Town players grab the Tier 1 wincons, they win by simply getting to Day X through No Lynches, since Survivors shouldn't count against the scum in terms of Town population, and the Watchers would've won, and the scum have no reason to stop them, since they win as well.

If all the Town players go for Tier 3 wincons, the win by just giving the scum their deaths. It's just an easy way to win, and people will abuse it.

[notquitethere]

Yeah I can see your point. Again though, as town can't collude beforehand there's little chance that everyone will pick secondary wincons. I mean, you couldn't have a town of all-cops, a town of all-vigs and a town full of secondary-wincon townies: there just isn't the points for it.

Still, as 3rd parties add something to the mix, how about this for an alternative suggestion: town players can bid points during N0 to get a third-party wincon instead of their current wincon. There'll be a limited number of 3rd party slots depending on the number of players, and the players get the allocated the 3rd party wincons from easiest to hardest in bid order. The list of all possible wincons will be known but not the exact ones that might be bidded for. They won't know whether anyone else bidded or was successful. Unsuccessful bids will get their points back before N1.