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[Mephansteras]

Would you want one or two more?  One mostly gets you to MYLO instead of LYLO short of a doctor save, while two is an extra lynch for town.

Hmm. Probably two, if it can be managed. An extra lynch should be enough to swing things in town's favor without making it impossible for scum to win. Also, it would lengthen the game and give people more practice.

[Leafsnail]

Yeah, probably.  As I see it:

At the moment we're still using a more mafia-sided version of C9, but that was found to be biased towards mafia over a large sample of games.

Guaranteeing a power role would make it more like F11, but that's still pretty mafia-sided.

The current MS newbie setup is 2 of 4, which manages a pretty even winrate without throwing in lots of complicated powers.  In my opinion the doctor causes problems in 2 of 4 (Cop/Doc is town-sided, Doc/Townie is mafia-sided, Doc/Jailkeeper is generally a bad setup), so I propose instead a slight variation.

2 of 3
One of the following setups is used:
1. 1 Mafia Goon, 1 Mafia Role Cop, 5 Vanilla Townies, Sane Cop, Jailkeeper.
2. 1 Mafia Goon, 1 Mafia Role Cop, 6 Vanilla Townies, Sane Cop.
3. 1 Mafia Goon, 1 Mafia Role Cop, 6 Vanilla Townies, Jailkeeper.

(Jailkeeper roleblocks and protects their target)

It's mostly the same as our current setup but with the mafia power toned down and the town power adjusted up.  Jailkeeper is preferable to doctor as it's strong enough to help the town on its own, but not overpowered when combined with a cop.

[Toaster]

Hm.  Interesting.


It creates an uncertainty when a kill is prevented- did the Jailkeeper block scum or protect town?  It's a useful result to the town, but it doesn't give as much information as a doc protect, which is as good as making the protectee confirmed town to the doc.

[Mephansteras]

Makes sense to me.

[notquitethere]

While jailkeeper might be slightly less informative than doctor, it's a lot more effective, as there's usually no benefit for accidentally protecting scum.

[Toaster]

Except now there's a cost to protecting the cop.

[notquitethere]

Hmm... this changes things. How often do town teams actually manage to co-ordinate themselves with a doctor protecting a cop?

[Leafsnail]

It happens a lot if your setup has no countermeasures.

[Mephansteras]

Hmm... this changes things. How often do town teams actually manage to co-ordinate themselves with a doctor protecting a cop?

Most basic scenario is this:

Cop inspects a mafia member then claims Cop and who they inspected the next day. It's a great trade-off for the town, and the right thing to do. Doc then knows to protect the Cop every night from that point on and the town then has a very high chance of winning. Takes zero coordination between the two, and ideally no one ever even knows the Doc exists unless the mafia try to kill the Cop. Even if a doc doesn't exist the Cop may be left alone because the mafia don't want to waste a night trying to kill him (and thus prove he's a cop and it's not an elaborate bus attempt).

With the jail keeper, he COULD protect the Cop but he then also makes the cop useless, so he's better off trying to block the mafia and hoping he stops the person who'd kill the cop.

[notquitethere]

Presumably, the jailkeeper would be useless against scum when there are more than one scum alive (as blocking one still leaves the other free to act)?

[Leafsnail]

No, there's the option of either guessing their nightkill target or the person who will be performing the kill.

[Griffionday]

New idea for 3rd party role: Cupid.

Role: During the day (to avoid causing the mafia accidentally killing themselves) they have the ability to cause any two players to fall in love.  The players are notified of who their new crush is, and gain the lovers role in addition to their current role.

Their win condition is to cause every one alive (with themselves being optional in the case of an even number of players alive) to be paired up.  Does not block alignment wins.

[Captain Ford]

Wow.

That could seriously alter the flow of a game. It definitely seems like it could cause utter chaos. (The lovers role causes both to die if either one of them is killed, right?)

[Leafsnail]

I haven't seen it with that wincon before but I seem to remember seeing something like that.

My reservation is that the Cupid role doesn't really care who gets paired with who, and thus it'd end up kindof random.

[Griffionday]

Wow.

That could seriously alter the flow of a game. It definitely seems like it could cause utter chaos. (The lovers role causes both to die if either one of them is killed, right?)

That's the one.

I haven't seen it with that wincon before but I seem to remember seeing something like that.

My reservation is that the Cupid role doesn't really care who gets paired with who, and thus it'd end up kindof random.

I'm not sure, it could quickly cause the game to end before everyone is paired if it causes the town to receive to many deaths, or links the mafias together and kills them to quickly.  So the cupid has to pair people who are likely to not be the targets of other kills or he'll lose before everyone is paired.