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[IronyOwl]

As an extreme variant, these things could be changeable or ever-changing, maybe even structured as a card game rather than being run with preset roles.

Suddenly... Bring Your Own Cards Mafia comes into my mind.

I now like this a lot. BYOR + BSER + Bad Ideas = Fun!

[Urist McUselessNoble]

Three ideas, all of which might be fun, Fun or just plain horribad:

Dwarf Fortress Mafia: Vanilla Mafia, except all roles have dorfy names. Vig -> Hammerer; Assassin -> Snatcher; Townie -> Dwarf; Mafia -> Goblin; Doctor -> Surgeon; Cult Leader -> Cat; Survivor -> Human Merchant; Jester -> Elf Merchant; and so on and etcetera.

Initial flavour being that Urist McDuke was found in his room having suffered an Unfortunate Accident after Mandating the production of a full set of Slade furniture, and since this couldn't possibly be the work of any dwarf, you have to start looking for sneaky gobbos.

Bastardness can be added to taste.

Mess o' Masons: Everybody is in at least two Masonic Orders. One (or more, depending on the size of the game and bastardness of the mod) of said Orders being the scumteam.

Lynch the Lynchers: A single serial killer and a bunch of townies. The catch: All the townies need to off both the SK and another townie to win. Game over when the SK buys it. The trick: D1 massclaim can reveal the SK, but if the SK is lynched D1, everybody loses.

[IronyOwl]

Three ideas, all of which might be fun, Fun or just plain horribad:

Dwarf Fortress Mafia: Vanilla Mafia, except all roles have dorfy names. Vig -> Hammerer; Assassin -> Snatcher; Townie -> Dwarf; Mafia -> Goblin; Doctor -> Surgeon; Cult Leader -> Cat; Survivor -> Human Merchant; Jester -> Elf Merchant; and so on and etcetera.

Initial flavour being that Urist McDuke was found in his room having suffered an Unfortunate Accident after Mandating the production of a full set of Slade furniture, and since this couldn't possibly be the work of any dwarf, you have to start looking for sneaky gobbos.

Bastardness can be added to taste.

Not really a new gametype if it's not bastardy, then. Flavor can be interesting, but it doesn't make the game unless it's explicitly designed to.

We did have a DF game once. The idea was that the players had to keep the fortress running, supplying food, fighting off elephants, etc, in addition to rooting out the scum. I forget what happened to it.

Mess o' Masons: Everybody is in at least two Masonic Orders. One (or more, depending on the size of the game and bastardness of the mod) of said Orders being the scumteam.

Interesting, but I'm forced to wonder just how much of an impact this would have. Unless town began organizing themselves in an attempt to break the setup, wouldn't most mason groups just ignore each other, since talking to each other privately usually wouldn't have any advantage over saying it publicly?

Lynch the Lynchers: A single serial killer and a bunch of townies. The catch: All the townies need to off both the SK and another townie to win. Game over when the SK buys it. The trick: D1 massclaim can reveal the SK, but if the SK is lynched D1, everybody loses.

I like the concept, but it's got some major execution problems. D1, what happens? Everyone tries to lynch their target. How do you get any kind of consensus? Do a handful of townies make a gentleman's agreement to dispatch each others' targets, then hunt down the SK? Do some people volunteer to lose?

Sure, everyone could keep their target secret and pretend they're looking for the SK, but why bother? Everyone knows they're not actually looking for the SK unless they've already hit their target, and nobody wants them to find the SK unless they've personally hit their target. It's also not like knowing who everyone else wants dead helps all that much- you might become a target once your victim knows you're gunning for them, but honestly how much are they going to care? If you're able to lynch them, they're obviously not able to swing the lynch where they need it anyway, and if they're able to lynch you, you can either swing the vote to your actual target anyway or you already have so there's no reason you'd care.

So, yeah. Needs a lot more nuance to be viable.

[Urist McUselessNoble]

1) OK.

2) Looking at the first Kill Webaddict Now thread suggests a number of interesting uses of masons for Town. In fact, townies would be almost bound to either massclaim publicly or in each mason group, in order to map the mason web. Because then, in the setup as written, you can stop looking at the mason groups with members who get nightkilled. Depending on the degree of interconnection in the setup, either strategy could be tricky for the scumteam. If all groups are interconnected with all other groups, the scumteam will have to be very careful about picking off their targets after a massclaim. OTOH, a public massclaim would let the scum know exactly how the network looks and so let them design a strategy. While a mason chat massclaim would turn into a game of Chinese whispers.

3) Point. D1 play would be pretty useless, and the obvious Nash equilibrium is for the SK to pick off the strongest townie by being the tiebreaker between all the Lynchers. Starting with a night phase instead would solve that problem, but also instakill a player before getting to play. Starting out with two vanilla townies (or masons) would break the symmetry, by forcing everyone to claim town (claiming lyncher against two town and an SK vote in a chain-lyncher setup is a strictly dominated strategy as far as I can tell).

[webadict]

Three ideas, all of which might be fun, Fun or just plain horribad:

Dwarf Fortress Mafia: Vanilla Mafia, except all roles have dorfy names. Vig -> Hammerer; Assassin -> Snatcher; Townie -> Dwarf; Mafia -> Goblin; Doctor -> Surgeon; Cult Leader -> Cat; Survivor -> Human Merchant; Jester -> Elf Merchant; and so on and etcetera.

Initial flavour being that Urist McDuke was found in his room having suffered an Unfortunate Accident after Mandating the production of a full set of Slade furniture, and since this couldn't possibly be the work of any dwarf, you have to start looking for sneaky gobbos.

Bastardness can be added to taste.

Not really a new gametype if it's not bastardy, then. Flavor can be interesting, but it doesn't make the game unless it's explicitly designed to.

We did have a DF game once. The idea was that the players had to keep the fortress running, supplying food, fighting off elephants, etc, in addition to rooting out the scum. I forget what happened to it.

Actually, what you're thinking of is BYOR:DE. There was an actual DF Mafia with a similar setup, except Elves were the scum. I would know. I ran four of them.

Mess o' Masons: Everybody is in at least two Masonic Orders. One (or more, depending on the size of the game and bastardness of the mod) of said Orders being the scumteam.

Interesting, but I'm forced to wonder just how much of an impact this would have. Unless town began organizing themselves in an attempt to break the setup, wouldn't most mason groups just ignore each other, since talking to each other privately usually wouldn't have any advantage over saying it publicly?

I, again, came up with this strategy before KWN. Mephansteras stole it from me when I used it in Paranormal. I'll never get proper credit for these strategies, just like when I told Org to claim Doctor in Paranormal 2.

Lynch the Lynchers: A single serial killer and a bunch of townies. The catch: All the townies need to off both the SK and another townie to win. Game over when the SK buys it. The trick: D1 massclaim can reveal the SK, but if the SK is lynched D1, everybody loses.

I like the concept, but it's got some major execution problems. D1, what happens? Everyone tries to lynch their target. How do you get any kind of consensus? Do a handful of townies make a gentleman's agreement to dispatch each others' targets, then hunt down the SK? Do some people volunteer to lose?

Sure, everyone could keep their target secret and pretend they're looking for the SK, but why bother? Everyone knows they're not actually looking for the SK unless they've already hit their target, and nobody wants them to find the SK unless they've personally hit their target. It's also not like knowing who everyone else wants dead helps all that much- you might become a target once your victim knows you're gunning for them, but honestly how much are they going to care? If you're able to lynch them, they're obviously not able to swing the lynch where they need it anyway, and if they're able to lynch you, you can either swing the vote to your actual target anyway or you already have so there's no reason you'd care.

So, yeah. Needs a lot more nuance to be viable.

Well, seeing as how nobody would get anybody lynched for fear of losing, I'm going to assume this would lead to a standstill Day 1, and then nothing would happen afterward.

[Urist McUselessNoble]

No, the SK would polish someone off in the night, and then you'd have your symmetry break, since this would turn one of the lynchers into a townie. But you can skip the D1 kabuki by simply having a townie or two from the get-go.

[webadict]

No, the SK would polish someone off in the night, and then you'd have your symmetry break, since this would turn one of the lynchers into a townie. But you can skip the D1 kabuki by simply having a townie or two from the get-go.

Um... No you don't.

Then there's just an extra townie who knows who the SK is, but no one else will vote him.

[Urist McUselessNoble]

That assumes D1 massclaim. If you throw a townie into the mix, the optimal move for everybody in a D1MC is going to be to claim to be the townie.

[webadict]

That assumes D1 massclaim. If you throw a townie into the mix, the optimal move for everybody in a D1MC is going to be to claim to be the townie.

But, everyone STILL knows you lose if you lynch the sk, so the actually optimal move is to extend the day infinitely.

And lynching anyone else is pretty much out of the question.

[Urist McUselessNoble]

I wasn't aware that indefinite extensions were available. Isn't the usual convention to limit extensions to one or two 24 or 48 hour periods?

In which case the optimal play in a setup where your vote was kept secret would be to vote your lynch target if you're a lyncher and hope that the townies mislynch him, a townie if you're the SK and the SK if you're townie. So with two townies, the lynchers will lose if they sit on their hands or if they massclaim. They need to convince the townies that they are actually the other townie (so the townies can't be masons), and the lynch target is the SK. The SK, meanwhile, needs to convince them that he's either a townie or a lyncher (which would make him a lynch target and therefore not the SK).

[webadict]

I wasn't aware that indefinite extensions were available. Isn't the usual convention to limit extensions to one or two 24 or 48 hour periods?

In which case the optimal play in a setup where your vote was kept secret would be to vote your lynch target if you're a lyncher and hope that the townies mislynch him, a townie if you're the SK and the SK if you're townie. So with two townies, the lynchers will lose if they sit on their hands or if they massclaim. They need to convince the townies that they are actually the other townie (so the townies can't be masons), and the lynch target is the SK. The SK, meanwhile, needs to convince them that he's either a townie or a lyncher (which would make him a lynch target and therefore not the SK).

But, there's no point to do anything ever. No talking happens. It's basically a gamble to see who wins.

Not really fun, if you ask me.

[Toaster]

I wasn't aware that indefinite extensions were available. Isn't the usual convention to limit extensions to one or two 24 or 48 hour periods?

Rules on extensions are up to the mod.  For example, I don't limit them, while Mephansteras limits them to two per day.

[Shakerag]

Has anyone already done, or has the idea already been tossed around, of a "See Someone Else's Role" Mafia? 

Like, perhaps take something like a BYOR but instead you don't know what your own role is, and you get someone else's role PM (slightly modified to protect non-town/mason teams?)  Obviously those in said teams would have to get a separate PM for the quicktopic link. 

Just wondering if this would be playable or a horrible mess.

[Leafsnail]

Sure it'd be playable... it'd just be either a day one massclaim or effectively mountainous.  Unless you mean you don't even know your alignment, in which case that would just be weird.

[Shakerag]

You'd have to know your alignment.

If non-town were to fakeclaim about the roles they received, would it be terribly easy to out them?  I suppose if you had a number of roles that had similar abilities that might make it a bit more difficult ...

Yeah, I suppose I'm wondering if there's any way to make it so that a massclaim wouldn't break the entire setup.