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[Toaster]

Order of Operations- Important with all the redirection potential.

What if someone gets redirected twice?  I think a specific redirection should take priority over a randomized target.  If someone is specifically redirected more than once, what would be a better way to decide priority besides random.org?

1. If A blocks B and B redirects A to C, is B or C blocked?

2. If A redirects B to C, and B redirects A to C, what happens?

3. If A redirects B to C, and B redirects D to E, what happens?

Ans:

1. I'd give highest priority to redirects, I think.  That would mean C is blocked.

2. I think that'd be a mutual block/failure.

3. I think the rule here should be to maximize redirection.  The end result would be that B gets redirected to C, meaning B forces C to target E.

[Toaster]

Game specific rules: (first draft)

   1. When the game goes into setup, I will lock the thread and send out your alignment.  Please reply to that with your selection of class from the list below.  If you do not reply in 24 hours, it will default to random.
   2. At game start, you will receive a random common item, unless your class dictates otherwise.
   3. There is a pool of public items.  This pool starts out containing four random items, at least one of which is guaranteed to be uncommon or better.  When a player dies, their items will go into this pool.  The contents of this pool are not known.
   4. During the day, you will automatically quest for an item, and you will receive it at the end of the day after the lynch.  You may PM me during the day and opt to grab an item from the public item pool instead.
   5. The odds for receiving an item are as follows:  65% common, 25% uncommon, 9% rare, 1% artifact.  Rarer items tend to have a greater effect.
   6. You may discard one item each night if you wish.  This effect happens at the end of the night and does not count as your night action.  The item goes into the public pool.
   7. Once you have three items in your possession, it becomes harder to get more.  The odds of questing/checking the public pool of giving you an item past three are 2/N%, where N is the number of items you have.


Notes:
I'm sure I missed some things.  Please let me know what they are.
I'll put a list of classes below this and a link to the item list.
I had forgotten about the diminishing returns item limit, which I like better than a hard limit.  It still allows for a bag of holding, which I'll go add.

[Darvi]

7. Once you have three items in your possession, it becomes harder to get more.  The odds of questing/checking the public pool of giving you an item past three are 2/N%, where N is the number of items you have.

Does that include Items you've already used?

[Toaster]

No.  Used consumables are gone for good.

[Darvi]

No, I mean, do used items count for the diminishing returns?

Like, you've used 2 items, but still have 2 left. Do you have max. chance to get a new item, or do you have 0.5% chance?

[Book]

   1. When the game goes into setup, I will lock the thread and send out your alignment.  Please reply to that with your selection of class from the list below.  If you do not reply in 24 hours, it will default to random.

I still like better the idea of choosing class first, and then alignments be rolled at random. Just like in a BYOR, you send your role first. It would also allow people to say right during sign ups: "in, random class," or "in, class sent", defaulting people to random for anyone who didn't send one once signups complete. This saves you some waiting time. Also, you should include the perks for choosing random.

   5. The odds for receiving an item are as follows:  65% common, 25% uncommon, 9% rare, 1% artifact.  Rarer items tend to have a greater effect.

You ran some simulations earlier on the thread, can you run a couple more to discuss? It now seems to me that with ten players, there's a 10% chance of an artefact, and almost certainty of a rare, being generated each night, which sounds a bit high. I'd think there shouldn't be more than one or two artefacts per entire game. People who know about balance may want to weigh in on this.

   7. Once you have three items in your possession, it becomes harder to get more.  The odds of questing/checking the public pool of giving you an item past three are 2/N%, where N is the number of items you have.

This sounds good, but a) the hoarder in me would maybe like it a bit higher, like four free, then 3/N after that, but I'm OK either way; b) how would a bag of holding affect this? suggestion: double your chances to get something after the diminishing returns effect kicks in (or maybe just 1.5 chances).

[webadict]

   1. When the game goes into setup, I will lock the thread and send out your alignment.  Please reply to that with your selection of class from the list below.  If you do not reply in 24 hours, it will default to random.

I still like better the idea of choosing class first, and then alignments be rolled at random. Just like in a BYOR, you send your role first. It would also allow people to say right during sign ups: "in, random class," or "in, class sent", defaulting people to random for anyone who didn't send one once signups complete. This saves you some waiting time. Also, you should include the perks for choosing random.

Right, but I don't make actions first. I make alignments first, and then I make actions. This is the opposite way, and so should be in the opposite style. It's better they know alignment first.

[Toaster]

Per suggestions in the thread, I've renamed a few items (scroll/wand of jailing) and added a couple artifacts (Nethack swords)

I still like better the idea of choosing class first, and then alignments be rolled at random. Just like in a BYOR, you send your role first. It would also allow people to say right during sign ups: "in, random class," or "in, class sent", defaulting people to random for anyone who didn't send one once signups complete. This saves you some waiting time. Also, you should include the perks for choosing random.

I want to see how it runs with players picking when they know their alignment for the first game.  After that, we'll see.  Also, Random will be an entry on the class list, reading like this:

Random:  Your class will be chosen randomly, or at the mod's discretion for balance.  As a bonus, your random starter item will be upgraded a rarity level.  If your class does not have a random starter item, you will get a random common.

   5. The odds for receiving an item are as follows:  65% common, 25% uncommon, 9% rare, 1% artifact.  Rarer items tend to have a greater effect.

You ran some simulations earlier on the thread, can you run a couple more to discuss? It now seems to me that with ten players, there's a 10% chance of an artefact, and almost certainty of a rare, being generated each night, which sounds a bit high. I'd think there shouldn't be more than one or two artefacts per entire game. People who know about balance may want to weigh in on this.

Good idea.  One point- ten 10% chances is actually ~65% chance of happening, not 100%.

Spoiler: Math alert (click to show/hide)

To determine the odds of something happening at least once over several chances, it's easiest to determine the odds of it not happening and subtracting that from 100%.  In your example, to determine the odds of a rare or artifact drop (10% chance) happening at least once over 10 tries:

Odds of it not happening each try: 90%
Trials: 10

Odds of it not happening over 10 trials: (0.9)^10, or 34.87%

Odds of at least one artifact or rare drop over 10 drops: 65.13%

Assuming a 13 player game with no kills and protections, you'd have 12 items the first night (after a lynch), then 10, 8, 6, 4. (2 wouldn't happen as that'd be game over.)  So assuming 40 item generations:

Odds of at least one artifact:  ~33%
Odds of at least one rare: ~98%
Expected item ratio: 26/10/3.6/0.4

A couple samples (no names this time):

Spoiler: Test 1 (click to show/hide)

C
C
C
C
C
U
C
U
C
C
U
U

C
C
C
C
C
C
R
R
U
C

C
U
R
C
C
R
C
R

R
C
R
U
R
C

C
C
C
C

Total: 25/7/8/0

Unusually high rare count.

Spoiler: Test 2 (click to show/hide)

C
U
U
C
R
C
C
C
U
C
R
C

C
U
C
C
U
C
C
C
C
C

R
C
C
C
C
U
C
R

C
C
C
U
C
A

U
U
A
C

Total: 25/9/4/2

Two artifacts.

Statistically, the expected ratio is better for balancing than the test ones, but they're interesting to see.

   7. Once you have three items in your possession, it becomes harder to get more.  The odds of questing/checking the public pool of giving you an item past three are 2/N%, where N is the number of items you have.

This sounds good, but a) the hoarder in me would maybe like it a bit higher, like four free, then 3/N after that, but I'm OK either way; b) how would a bag of holding affect this? suggestion: double your chances to get something after the diminishing returns effect kicks in (or maybe just 1.5 chances).

Currently, the bag of holding (rare) removes the limit.

[webadict]

As horribly complicate as I make this sound, I've got an idea for Card Mafia.

Basically, you have a hand of cards with abilities, or special abilities that you can play at certain times. And stuff. It's basically like a bunch of random powers and possible rule changing things.

Meh?

[Darvi]

I can has the world? :3

Anyways, Bastard Mafia Lite.
 
  Basically, it's mafia with some minor rule changes. No complex roles   like in BYOR (only regular roles), votes always count, etc. Only some   basic changes, which I can't elaborate on since it would spoil the   bastardy-ness.

Intended for people who have completed at least  one BM, know  how to play mafia, but don't have any experience with Bastard mods and the like.

Discuss.

[webadict]

I can has the world? :3

I'm confused... I mean... What is this?

[Mephansteras]

Hmmm. I just randomly thought of a new Bastard Paranormal idea. Rather different from the last one.

I'll have to hold onto that. But I will use it at some point.

[Darvi]

I can has the world? :3

I'm confused... I mean... What is this?

Za Warudo gives you the ability to win the game for your team, but it costs your life.

[webadict]

I can has the world? :3

I'm confused... I mean... What is this?

Za Warudo gives you the ability to win the game for your team, but it costs your life.

Right, but that would be a win in this game, so no.

I have... ideas for this game.

[Supercharazad]

I was thinking of a new gametype, Hated God.

There are 9 players, one is a god.


The god knows they are a god, nobody else does.

The god acts like normal mafia, but there is only one of him, and he has 10 special powers he can use each night.

The god does not know what the powers do, but he gets a list of possible powers, which each do different things, for example:

Smite: Kills target.

Holy Guarding: Protects target from lynch.

Curse: Target takes one less vote to be lynched.

Bless: Target's vote counts as two (Target does not know they were targeted by this)

Ordinate/Convert*: Turns townie into a demigod, who wins with the god and gets 2-3 powers, they know they were targeted.

Insult/Make heretic*: Turns target into a cultist leader, who acts like the normal cult in other games, they can convert others.

Make sacrifice: Target must choose a player to be NK'd

Make likeable*: Target becomes a "beloved princess", day is skipped on her death, person who did the final vote on them is killed.

Make unlucky*: Target is lynched if they have a vote on them, instead of other players.

Madden*: Turns target into a Serial Killer.



Any thoughts?

*= Permanent, all others last only one day.